40 cal heavy bench gun powder load question

[Brian6396]

I need a starting point or general range for powder loads.
Its 40 cal. H&H barrel from the early 80s.
Approx 36 in long.
Outside, flat to flat 1.125 in.
Boar is 404 X 420 using my digital caliper
The barrel does use a tapered false muzzle for loading
I will be shooting 2F black powder

 

[Rifleman1776]

Would that be H&A? If it is your barrel is a Numrich and (probably) 1:56" twist.
Why 2Fg? In a tiny caliber you will be better off using 3Fg.
Only you can determine the best charge for your rifle. Time spent shooting off the bench at the range is the only way to determine what load is best for your .40.
My wife's .40, with a Douglas barrel, likes 25 gr. Swiss 3fg. I suggest, with a target at 50 yards, you start at about 30 gr. and work up in five grain increments, swabbing between every shot, until you get a good group.
BTW, not wanting to discourage you, but fact is, a .40 is not a winning caliber for bench matches. I have a friend who is a top shooter and ml gunsmith. He has a .40 benchrest rifle and last time he used it at a match he wouldn't even turn in his targets they were so bad. The little .40 ball gets blown all over the county by even the lightest breeze. Sorry to be the Grinch. Good luck.

 

[torn moc]

you can use up to one and one half times the caliber....in your case 60 grains max.
It will scream with 60 grains..
can you post a pic of the gun???

 

[Brian6396]

Thanks for the input
It was built by my grandfather, Earl Monroe, Argyle NewYork.
He bought barrels from Hoppy Hopkins, H&H barrels in Ocala Florida. I found the papers in his stuff.
As soon as I can I will post some pictures

 

[Rifleman1776]

Thanks for the input
It was built by my grandfather, Earl Monroe, Argyle NewYork.
He bought barrels from Hoppy Hopkins, H&H barrels in Ocala Florida. I found the papers in his stuff.
As soon as I can I will post some pictures

OK, H&H, interesting.
Looking forward to pics. Have you checked the twist rate?

 

[Richard Brinkman]

I would definitly check the twist as along about the time that your grandfather probably build that rifle Hoppy and his buddies were expermenting with 40 cal rifles using a faster that normal twist and they were seating a much oversize ball and patch throught the tapered false muzzle attempting to make a bullet out of the round ball. It worked very well for offhand shooting but I don't know how it stacked up against the heavy bench guns.

RB

 

[Bill/Ms.]

H & H made some really good barrels and their .40 calibers were outstanding. If it were mine, I would start with around 50 gr. ffg, a .400 ball and .018-.020 patching and work from there. Nothing wrong with using ffg powder, but I would try that and fffg & see which works best. With a .40 caliber benchrest rifle, velocity is your best friend so don't be surprised if you end up shooting around 75-80 grains powder and a .410 ball. It takes a lot of shooting to find the ultimate load for any rifle- but, that's the fun part!

 

[Brian6396]

I will have to check the twist. I think this 40 cal is the last gun he shot judging by the items in his old range box.

 

[nkbj]

I would definitly check the twist as along about the time that your grandfather probably build that rifle Hoppy and his buddies were expermenting with 40 cal rifles using a faster that normal twist and they were seating a much oversize ball and patch throught the tapered false muzzle attempting to make a bullet out of the round ball. It worked very well for offhand shooting but I don't know how it stacked up against the heavy bench guns.

RB

Too bad TC put square bottoms on their "QLA"!

 

[Grenadier1758]

Thanks for the input
It was built by my grandfather, Earl Monroe, Argyle NewYork.
He bought barrels from Hoppy Hopkins, H&H barrels in Ocala Florida. I found the papers in his stuff.
As soon as I can I will post some pictures

Look through his stuff some more. Did he leave any notes on the loads he was using? Did he have any bullet molds or bullets with the gun? It is possible that he might have been experimenting with paper patched conicals. Those would have worked well in a false muzzled 40 caliper rifle.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Look through his stuff some more. Did he leave any notes on the loads he was using? Did he have any bullet molds or bullets with the gun? It is possible that he might have been experimenting with paper patched conicals. Those would have worked well in a false muzzled 40 caliper rifle.

Good thinking while the rest of us were sleeping. That very well could be a slug gun. Really, I can't imagine an experienced shooter/gunsmith making a .40 round ball bench gun.

 

[Brian6396]

Im hopeing in the next few days I can get back to my dads place and take some pics. There are molds for balls and conical bullets both solid and skirted minie.

I havent found much in the notes department and my dad said he had to leave a lot of stuff behind due to limited space in the car

 

[Rifleman1776]

Im hopeing in the next few days I can get back to my dads place and take some pics. There are molds for balls and conical bullets both solid and skirted minie.

I havent found much in the notes department and my dad said he had to leave a lot of stuff behind due to limited space in the car

Pity about all the other "stuff". But, you really should check the twist rate on that rifle. If you can, or can find a friend to do it, photograph the rifling inside the bore.
Ye got an interesting rifle gun there. The curious need to know more.

 

[Brian6396]

I used a paperclip and wood dowel to make a tool to check twist. drilled small hole in dowel for clip to feed thru. pushed dowel to bottom of barrel and marked dowel then pulled out and stopped when i got 1/2 revolution, marked and measure. 48 twist

I have 2lbs of FFG Dupont black powder and would like to use it.

 

[Brian6396]

both the rear and front sights are Redfield peep sights. the rear has adjustable aperature.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Well that's interesting.
It looks like a TC something not a heavy bench gun. With a 1:48" twist it might shoot those conicals, only testing will prove/disprove that.
2Fg is not the best choice for a tiny bore like that. It will shoot but you may not get optimum results.

 

[Richard Brinkman]

Looks like a standard twist for the 40 cal. You might weigh the rifle if it goes under 14# it could be used in the light bench class. At any rate I bet it'll shoot great. I would start off with a .395 ball and a heavy patch and see how that works though the false muzzle. If it has a lot of taper I would try a .400 ball you might be able to go larger than that? I don't know what size that Hoppy and his buddies were using but do know that they were shooting a over sized ball and tight patch and swaging that through the false muzzle with a hammer. The 2FF will shoot Ok but will probably leave a lot of fouling and I would think that 3FF would be a better option. But if that's what you have shoot it and see and please report back. Like mentioned above courious minds want to know?

Richard

PS, Don't shoot 25 yard groups a gas pipe with good sights will shot a group at 25 yds. Start at 50 get it zeroed in and shoot a few groups then move out to 100 and see what it will really do.

 

[Brian6396]

This gun was built in the early 80s by my best guess. My dad said gramps called these his heavy bench guns. In his stuff I have found a few ribbons for bench rest competition. I dont know how much bench guns have changed over the past 30 years or if he just called them heavy because they are.

Im a short guy and raising it to a normal standing shooting position is difficult, never be able to hold it steady

 

[Rifleman1776]

This gun was built in the early 80s by my best guess. My dad said gramps called these his heavy bench guns. In his stuff I have found a few ribbons for bench rest competition. I dont know how much bench guns have changed over the past 30 years or if he just called them heavy because they are.

Im a short guy and raising it to a normal standing shooting position is difficult, never be able to hold it steady

He may have called it his "heavy bench gun" but compared to bench guns that are really heavy, I'll betcha that is a featheweight. Many "heavy bench" rifle weigh in the 30 to 60 pound range. :shocked2:
You need to weigh that rifle. If may fall in the 'light bench' category. If so you can have a lot of fun with it.
All that said, it may still compete quite well against the genuine "heavy" bench rifles. You are not required to have a gun that weighs 30 or more pounds to compete in that category. (although the tiny .40 ball will still be problematic) I once won a "heavy" bench match with a rebarrled TC 'hawken' that weighs just under 11 pounds.
What you need to do now is weight it, then start shooting.