Uberti 1860 Army Question

B P Arn · Aug 31, 2020

sourdough said:
Uberti likes red. There are many Pietta European hardwood grips that are reddish, but not to the extent of the Ubertis.

I have an Uberti Whitneyville Hartford Dragoon replica (2019) that is somewhat red, but not bad.

The funny part of this is what Uberti has on their website. They do not make a WH Dragoon like this these days. The original one they produced was accurate: no protruding screw ends on the right side of the frame. Can't be had these days.

And look at the wood! No such thing anymore.

Regards,

Jim

I think Uberti mixes red pigment in with the varnish, and then put way too much of it on the gun. I don't understand why they do that.

Jaegermeister · Aug 31, 2020

I’m in the early process of sending this off to Goons Gun Works to treat it to the enhancements it deserves. Then I’ll tackle the fugly wood finish.
I apologized for derailing the thread.

AZbpBurner · Sep 1, 2020

Rottenstone, or very fine pumice mixed with some mineral oil, is intended to be rubbed on any high gloss finish to matte it. Saves all the calisthenics of stripping & re-finishing.
Top: High Gloss
Bottom: Rubbed out to Matte finish

Smokey Plainsman · Sep 1, 2020

Looks good but the Ubertis are too RED and a rotten’s stone wouldn’t help.

FishDFly · Sep 1, 2020

:NO SANDPAPER!!! EVER!!!"

Actually in "As Issue" matches it is against the rules to sand paper grips.

Boston Bill · Nov 21, 2020

sourdough said:
Uberti likes red. There are many Pietta European hardwood grips that are reddish, but not to the extent of the Ubertis.

I have an Uberti Whitneyville Hartford Dragoon replica (2019) that is somewhat red, but not bad.

The funny part of this is what Uberti has on their website. They do not make a WH Dragoon like this these days. The original one they produced was accurate: no protruding screw ends on the right side of the frame. Can't be had these days.

And look at the wood! No such thing anymore.

Regards,

Jim

Cimarron makes it with no screw holes on the right side. I have one!

M. De Land · Nov 21, 2020

Jaegermeister said:
Nice revolver. Full fluted Armies are the most beautiful in my opinion. Love my Uberti.

I love divergence of taste and thought on subjects like this, life would be so boring and drab if we all liked the same things. I think the full flutes look weird, are homely as a mud fence and completely out of place on any revolver let alone an 1860 Colt, historically correct or not. When one considers the ratio of non fluted, roll engrave 1860s compared to the very few by comparison that were fluted it is no wonder what most folks picture in their minds eye when it comes to a 60 Colt.

RjSixgun · Nov 21, 2020

wasn't there also a 1860 Army, Colt London that had both a front strap and back strap made of blue steel??

B P Arn · Nov 21, 2020

^^^Yes, and a Model of 1861, which was 36 caliber, and also with blued steel trigger guard and grip frame.

Here are pictures of my Uberti replica (note the thick red finish on the grip). This one has the machining and hardware to accept a shoulder stock:

Same gun, but with the full length 1861 barrel replaced with a shortened 1851 barrel assembly:

Zonie · Nov 22, 2020

RjSixgun said:
wasn't there also a 1860 Army, Colt London that had both a front strap and back strap made of blue steel??

Colt London did ship some Colt 1860 Army's to the US but my source of information doesn't seem to say if these pistols had brass or steel gripstraps.

The vast majority of the London made revolvers were of the 1849 and 1851 models. Almost all of these had steel gripstraps because the British didn't like the silver plated brass ones.

smoothshooter · Nov 22, 2020

Smokey Plainsman said:
Absolutely.

They were made early on but discontinued by Colt after a while. It is widespread disinformation that the fluted models were prone to blowing up. In truth, the culprit was the early straight chamber design. The reason Colt discontinued them is most likely they took longer to machine than the common round cylinders and that slowed down production time. Once the Army started making large orders this was important.

Now Pietta offers a model with half flutes like you’d see on a modern revolver. That is NOT correct and purely fantasy.

Enlighten me on the straight chambers thing.

sourdough · Nov 22, 2020

smoothshooter said:
Enlighten me on the straight chambers thing.

Colt's purpose for the 1860 Army NMA revolver was to come up with a .44 Army caliber revolver to replace the 1848 Dragoon OMA revolver which was much heavier, so he chose to use the 1851 Navy OMN frame. The 1860 Army cylinder was shorter than the Dragoon cylinder, and Colt wanted as much power as possible. When Colt started manufacturing the 1860 Army full-fluted cylinder (which was an attempt to bring the NMA weight close to the OMN weight), as well as the engraved round cylinder, the chambers were bored all the way to the rear as .44 for powder capacity, but that left very little "steel" in the area of cylinder stop slots. Subsequently, several early cylinders ruptured in that area upon firing. Colt then started producing what he termed as the cavalry cylinder.

Charles W. Pate's book The Colt Model 1860 Army Revolver (2018) pp. 132-135 discusses the "cavalry cylinder' in which the chambers are tapered at the rear.

This proved to be satisfactory as Colt continued to produce full-fluted cylinders (on a sporadic basis) until about SN 7000 or so, but only for civilian sales. The round engraved cylinder was what the Army contracts specified.

Regards,

Jim

jonathan butcher · Nov 22, 2020

Smokey Plainsman,
I postiviely love the finish of your Remington! Beyond the Citristrip and once the finish was removed, did you use the application of mustard to achieve the dark mottled effect ? Well done Sir.

Smokey Plainsman said:
My recent Pietta has about the right color compared to the museum grade cased sets I’ve seen:
View attachment 41528
View attachment 41529
I agree the Ubertis are too red.

I’ve found the Citristrip product works well to get off the Uberti stuff. I redid the grips on this Uberti Remington (along with antiquing it) and I like the results:
View attachment 41530

Smokey Plainsman · Nov 22, 2020

jonathan butcher said:
Smokey Plainsman,
I postiviely love the finish of your Remington! Beyond the Citristrip and once the finish was removed, did you use the application of mustard to achieve the dark mottled effect ? Well done Sir.

Thanks! I used cold bluing solution and steel wool to give a mottled appearance, drawing inspiration from original antique guns and where they are worn from time and usages.

wb78963 · Nov 22, 2020

Jaegermeister said:
I’m in the early process of sending this off to Goons Gun Works to treat it to the enhancements it deserves. Then I’ll tackle the fugly wood finish.
I apologized for derailing the thread.

in the armory here re a pair of 1860 's Army, one fluted one round, that have been touched by the Goon magic fingers. They have somewhere over 600 total rounds and no cap jams. I would recommend Slixshot nipples to cover the cap jamming thing and replacing that dreadful mainspring with a lee's gunfighter ot Wolff reduced mainspring. They don't get shot as much now because there are more interesting smoke poles to occupy my time and are so reliable as to be boring..
.As reliable as a suppository gun now and that is it!
Bunk

smoothshooter · Nov 23, 2020

sourdough said:
Colt's purpose for the 1860 Army NMA revolver was to come up with a .44 Army caliber revolver to replace the 1848 Dragoon OMA revolver which was much heavier, so he chose to use the 1851 Navy OMN frame. The 1860 Army cylinder was shorter than the Dragoon cylinder, and Colt wanted as much power as possible. When Colt started manufacturing the 1860 Army full-fluted cylinder (which was an attempt to bring the NMA weight close to the OMN weight), as well as the engraved round cylinder, the chambers were bored all the way to the rear as .44 for powder capacity, but that left very little "steel" in the area of cylinder stop slots. Subsequently, several early cylinders ruptured in that area upon firing. Colt then started producing what he termed as the cavalry cylinder.

Charles W. Pate's book The Colt Model 1860 Army Revolver (2018) pp. 132-135 discusses the "cavalry cylinder' in which the chambers are tapered at the rear.

This proved to be satisfactory as Colt continued to produce full-fluted cylinders (on a sporadic basis) until about SN 7000 or so, but only for civilian sales. The round engraved cylinder was what the Army contracts specified.

Regards,

Jim

Thanks for the info dump.

Silent Walker · Nov 25, 2020

My new purchase of a used Pietta Remington 58 in .44 cal, not a bad $125 investment.

M. De Land · Nov 25, 2020

Wow, good price but the second cylinder will need to be range tested to make sure it prints to the same point of aim , mine didn't when tested from a bench and sand bags.

Silent Walker · Nov 25, 2020

M. De Land said:
Wow, good price but the second cylinder will need to be range tested to make sure it prints to the same point of aim , mine didn't when tested from a bench and sand bags.

Already been tested before.... all is good.

M. De Land · Nov 25, 2020

Silent Walker said:
Already been tested before.... all is good.

This was my first experience with a spare cylinder and I never considered it until I benched rested the pistol with the alternate cylinder and it grouped the balls noticeably (several inches) to one side of the first. It was just as tight of a group, as I remember, but definitely did not print to the same POA.
My guess is the second cylinder had the bolt notch's slightly off set on each chamber during manufacture thus making the ball hit the forcing cone off center of bore causing the shot to print off to one side. A ball would not be deformed as much by this and would still probably be accurate but a conical I think would be a different story especially at extended range.

Uberti 1860 Army Question

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