Best method of working up a load

My question is basically, "does anyone have some good advice on how to efficiently work up the best load for my rifle". Yes, I can always go out and shoot 200 rounds to hopefully find a good one, but, I'm sure there are some basics and rules of thumb which would speed up the process.

For example: let's say I'm going to reload a heavier grain bullet for 30-06. The reloading manual gives me a range of grain loads for the particular powder and projectile weight which I will be using. I could load all of them and shoot them until i find the optimum. However, my experience has shown me a rule of thumb which I use to shorten the process. I ignore both the minimal powder charge and the maximum charge (which almost never results in a good grouping) and load 4 rounds of each of the middle 3 grain loads. Whichever load provides the best group is my winner. That's what I'm looking for here - the rule of thumb born of experience.

So, let's say I'm shooting "X" caliber rifle. Do I start out with a powder load of "X" + 20 grains and work up from there in 10 grain increments, or, is there a standard of take your caliber and add 15 grains and start there? Also, is there merit to using the thickest patching material possible so as to fully engage the muzzle lands for best accuracy?

Assuredly each rifle is different; however, there must be some general consensus and tips which would speed up the process. I look forward to hearing your suggestions.

Start with load measure (by volume) same as caliber then increase by 5 grain increments until you reach maximum according to manufacture recommendations or loose accuracy.
Walk

Bugman said:

So, let's say I'm shooting "X" caliber rifle. Do I start out with a powder load of "X" + 20 grains and work up from there in 10 grain increments, or, is there a standard of take your caliber and add 15 grains and start there? Also, is there merit to using the thickest patching material possible so as to fully engage the muzzle lands for best accuracy?

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There are several methods for determining the beginning load for a muzzleloading rifle. Some are quite old, and some were thought to be the way to determine the load without shooting at targets to verify it....

One old way, was to use 3 grains of powder per every 7 grains of lead in the ball. So the weight of the ball in grains divided by 7, with the result multiplied by 3. So a .490 round ball weighing 177 grains....divided by 7 you get 25.285...so lets say 25.3. Multiply by 3, and you get 75.9 grains. So I'd say you'd need 75 grains.

Another school of though is that you start with grains = caliber, and work upwards in 5 grain increments, until you find the most accurate load. So a 50 caliber rifle would start with 50 grains of powder.

A third variation is similar to the second...you take the rifle caliber and multiply by 1.5, so...a 50 caliber rifle would start with a 75 grain charge, but in this case you need to test upwards and downwards by five-grain increments.

I am required in my state to use a minimum of 60 grains of powder in a rifle when hunting deer, so for me that meant start at 60 grains. I reasoned that because some of the store bought powder measures, are not that accurate, that using the minimum might mean I was actually a grain or two below the minimum if I was stopped by a DNR officer. So to be "safe" I set my powder measure at 70 grains and used 3Fg. I found this to be very accurate, so I kept it. Being 70 grains it mean that a pound of powder (which is 7000 grains) would give me roughly 100 shots. When I upgraded to a .54 caliber rifle I simply kept the same powder measure. It worked fine, it's accurate and the ball goes through the deer broadside at 110 yards or less...so....

According to the third method above, with my .54 rifle I should be using about 80 grains.

As for patching that is a function of the diameter of the ball in relation to your rifle's depth of the grooves, and whether they are square cut or round bottom rifling. My barrel is round bottom and it likes a .530 ball with .015 thick patches.

LD

Walkingeagle said:

Start with load measure (by volume) same as caliber then increase by 5 grain increments until you reach maximum according to manufacture recommendations or loose accuracy.
Walk

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Get dutch's shooting system. Dr5x i think is his handle here now. It has all this and more for you.

I get what you are asking and kind of see between the lines. If you shot a 50 caliber rifle with 5-grain increments for 5-shot groups you'd already be in for 125 shots without repeating or confirming anything. Then, you have to figure out if one of those groups is "the best" and can you repeat the results. I cut out the middle. In other words, I will shoot a 5-shot group with the 1-grain per caliber and another with the maximum amount of powder I want to and safely can load. Usually there is a clear winner in terms of a tighter group. If so, I shoot the same thing again (2 5-shot groups, one of each charge). This confirms a "winner". With that info, you may conclude that your rifle prefers lighter, or heavier charges. My next step is to shoot one in the middle. For example, start with 50 and 100 grains, now try 75 grains. If the middle charge is more or less accurate than the "light" or "heavy" charge, I then increase or decrease from there in 5-grain powder increments. Shoot 2 of these groups to confirm results. Now you're only at 40-shots fired. Now you can go 5-grains from the middle charge towards the direction that showed better groups. For example, you're first better group was with 100 grains instead of 50. You try 75 grains and they are better than 50. So now you shoot 5-shot groups at 80, 85, 90 and 95. You've shot another 20 rounds for a total of 60-shots. If one of those groups shows as the "best", repeat that one to confirm. So you end up with 65-shots fired. This is half the amount as the 5-grain increment starting at 1-grain per caliber method.

If you think there is room to increase accuracy even further, what I do is the next time out change a different component. So second range session, use a heavier patch and shoot 5-shots, then use a thinner patch and shoot 5-shots with the same ball and powder charge you left off at. If one of those tightens the group, switch to that patch material/size. Shoot a second group with that combo to confirm. You're at 80-shots total now. If you still think there is accuracy to squeeze out, you can try a group with a different lube and then one with yet another. Pick the "winner". Shoot one more to confirm. You are at 90-shots. Lastly, you can shoot a different ball size, one up or one down. First try to be sure it will load if going up. One group should tell you what you need to know. Use the last 5-shots in that box of 100-balls to confirm the load you've decided upon. This way, you can sight-in your rifle in two or three range session with one full box of balls.

If along the way you get a group that you are totally happy with at the distance you need, you can stop sooner. If you get a 2-inch group at 50-yards and 4-inch group at 100-yards that may be totally acceptable for your purpose (that's up to you). Why search further? If you can repeat it without fail you can trust it and know your rifle is on and the maximum group size, then apply it accordingly.

All the above is great advice. One other thing you might think about is "calling" your shots. Not every hold at the sear break is going to be a dead-on X Some might be a hard 10 at 2:00, another might be a scratch 10, and another a 9 for what ever reason.

Through your scope and on a target at the bench you should mark the position of where your hold was when it broke, and, where the shot actually lands. You're most interested in how good the loads are, rather than how well you can actually hold.

Col. Batguano said:

All the above is great advice. One other thing you might think about is "calling" your shots. Not every hold at the sear break is going to be a dead-on X Some might be a hard 10 at 2:00, another might be a scratch 10, and another a 9 for what ever reason.

Through your scope and on a target at the bench you should mark the position of where your hold was when it broke, and, where the shot actually lands. You're most interested in how good the loads are, rather than how well you can actually hold.

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Yes, YES, YES!! Being able call your shot is one of THE most important things one can/must learn for accuracy. Though I already knew the method, Carlos Hathcock drilled that into my head in the mid 70's when he helped me sight in a rifle. Matter of fact, we all get distracted and sometimes we just have no idea where the shot went before we scope the target and if that happened, write it down. If you opened the group size from any kind of error, don't count that against the load and write it down.

ALSO, KEEP YOUR TARGETS when developing a load and write down ALL the information you can on them. I mean temperature, wind speed and direction, light conditions, time of day, how you were feeling when you shot the targets and anything else you can think of. This can show you the small differences in group sizes and which load to choose.

Finally, begin each new powder charge with a CLEAN barrel. You need to know if there is a difference between where the first shot from a clean barrel goes and the follow up shots.

Gus

Bugman - please check your "CONVERSATIONS"
I think you will really like Dutch's book.
Provided courtesy of the "Dutch's Book Club"

Thank you to all for the advice. I have plenty here to work on and Dutch's book will be of great value from what I have read on the forum in the past.

Gus you described that perfectly.

One other thing to be aware of; once you have reached a certain level of proficiency, very often the center of your groups (relative to sight picture) will be different depending on the position you are shooting. Standing position tends to produce higher points of impact than prone for instance---no sling to hold the barrel down.

Get a loose leaf binder and keep all your targets, try to shoot one group on each target. wright the load, ball size, patch thickness, lube , powder type and charge and primer/cap , and wouldn't hurt to wright down the weather. Each time you shoot. only change one thing at a time(patch thickness) or lube or powder/charge. Keep those records. Shoot form a known distance keep it constant. shoot from a supported solid bench, gun rest. I even keep a spent patch to compare with newer loads. Do everything the same every time with only one change at a time. Over time you will notice a pattern (one patch type/lube or powder ) better or worse than the booked/record targets

And once you figure out your load, stay away from the bench. (Unless you really like that sort of thing.) To make YOURSELF a better shooter, you should do most of your shooting in positions you will be using in competitions, or in the field.

I'm not saying that benchrest shooting isn't legitimate as a competition discipline, but people that really get in to that are very technical people--like the engineers and actuaries of the shooting world.

Bugman said:

My question is basically, "does anyone have some good advice on how to efficiently work up the best load for my rifle". Yes, I can always go out and shoot 200 rounds to hopefully find a good one, but, I'm sure there are some basics and rules of thumb which would speed up the process.

For example: let's say I'm going to reload a heavier grain bullet for 30-06. The reloading manual gives me a range of grain loads for the particular powder and projectile weight which I will be using. I could load all of them and shoot them until i find the optimum. However, my experience has shown me a rule of thumb which I use to shorten the process. I ignore both the minimal powder charge and the maximum charge (which almost never results in a good grouping) and load 4 rounds of each of the middle 3 grain loads. Whichever load provides the best group is my winner. That's what I'm looking for here - the rule of thumb born of experience.

So, let's say I'm shooting "X" caliber rifle. Do I start out with a powder load of "X" + 20 grains and work up from there in 10 grain increments, or, is there a standard of take your caliber and add 15 grains and start there? Also, is there merit to using the thickest patching material possible so as to fully engage the muzzle lands for best accuracy?

Assuredly each rifle is different; however, there must be some general consensus and tips which would speed up the process. I look forward to hearing your suggestions.

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Bugma
I jusent on my eBook but to more quickly answer your question.Use a grain and a half for each caliber for calibers .45 and above. About grain for caliber with the smaller calibers. Your idea about using a thicker patch material that, with the lead of the lead ball will be extruded into the rifling and seal the bore so none of the powerful gasses produced by the powders explosion can by pass the patched projectile.

Any questions you might have about the Book which is really a bunch of papers written over a number of years, don't hesitate to send your queries to me at [email protected]

Dutch Schoultzn

Along with the above suggestions a way to get in the ballpark is to look here on these forums and see what folks are using in guns similar or the same as yours. Often a load that works well in someone’s 50 caliber Thompson Center Hawken will work well in your 50 caliber TC Hawken.

Dr5x said:

Bugma
I jusent on my eBook but to more quickly answer your question.Use a grain and a half for each caliber for calibers .45 and above. About grain for caliber with the smaller calibers. Your idea about using a thicker patch material that, with the lead of the lead ball will be extruded into the rifling and seal the bore so none of the powerful gasses produced by the powders explosion can by pass the patched projectile.

Any questions you might have about the Book which is really a bunch of papers written over a number of years, don't hesitate to send your queries to me at [email protected]

Dutch Schoultzn

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Thank you very much. I look forward to putting the information to good use.

I've found with both of my rifles(both .50 cal, one a Hawken percussion w/1:48 twist, the other a flintlock TN Mtn rifle w/1:56 twist) 80gr of 2f shoots best. One likes Goex, the other likes Swiss. The flintlock shoots the same though with 70gr of 3f or 80gr of 2f Swiss. Using 2f, I went down as low as 60gr and up as high as 100gr. Above 80gr, the groups started opening up. So I got the powder part done.

There are so many variables to change with patch and lube. I've played with some different lubes and found the Dutch method Ballistol and water dry lubed patches are as accurate as anything else. Mr Flintlocks is accurate too. As long as I can swab between shots, I use dry lubed. If I cant/dont wanna, I use Mr Flintlocks.

Patch THICKNESS is the one thing I havent really experimented with. I have a ton of high quality pillow ticking that I "think" is .018 thick.

My method is: eliminate variables by bench rest shooting, and change one thing at a time.

Col. Batguano said:

And once you figure out your load, stay away from the bench. (Unless you really like that sort of thing.) To make YOURSELF a better shooter, you should do most of your shooting in positions you will be using in competitions, or in the field.

I'm not saying that benchrest shooting isn't legitimate as a competition discipline, but people that really get in to that are very technical people--like the engineers and actuaries of the shooting world.

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That's exactly right and I would add a regimen of dry firing at home as well, in the Offhand position, especially.

Also, I don't figure my "final adjustments" to my sights are done with bench rest shooting, though I file the front sight close and move the rear sight close. My final adjustments are done from Off hand shooting, since that's the way I use a muzzleloader most of the time.

Gus

View attachment 22252 View attachment 22252 View attachment 22253 FWIW, I now start searching for a load at 1-1/2 calibers. Scans wherever they insert themselves.

My favorite .50 shoots a one hole group off sandbags at 50y with either 70g 3f or 80g 2f. I recently took a new to me .45 to the range for the 4th sight in attempt to find a group. I shot a 3 or 4 shot (I shot 4 times, but only can verify 3 hits), one hole group at 50y I can cover with a nickel using 60g 3f, and could almost do that with 65g 2f. The surprise was that at 65g 3f, the group blew up to almost 4 inches. I had shot this load, patch, ball before and I don't remember the grouping, but it was not very good. The only change I made between the two trips was to use bear grease for a lube this time, and wipe between shots in some cases, to see the difference. The comment about keeping the targets in a log is a very good one. Back in my suppository days I did this with all hand loads. Today we can just scan them and put them in a file. I am going to do this again.

Another learning from this day at the range was the importance of cleaning between shots, at least with this rifle. One flannel patch with a moving squirt of generic windex to dampen it, followed with a dry patch made a huge difference. You can see the scans below. The top one shows the 4 shot group about 8 o'clock. The other three holes in the target are the exact same load, but without running a damp and dry patch between shots. I was very surprised at the difference it made. Velocity increased as the ball hit higher with each additional shot. The second target was posted directly under the first one. The only change was going to 65g 3f, still cleaning between shots. Powder was Goex. View attachment 22252

This is the 65g target. Could not load both in the same post. Target is 5.9 inches in diameter. I was stunned at the difference in group sizes for only 5 grains of powder increase.

I've been wondering about sight adjustment. I'm still not 100% done with working up "the" load for my gun, but last range session, I was shooting touching cloverleaf groups off the bench. But they were a little low and a little left. I plan on shooting it more at 50yds from the bench, then shooting again with KNOWN different thicknesses of patches to make sure I got "the" load. Once I feel I do, if I'm still a little low and left from the bench, I'll need to tweak the sights. I'm assuming I'll need to tap the rear sight RIGHT, to move the left leaning group right. Is that correct? And I'll need to file the front sight DOWN to raise the group UP. Is this also correct?

But why not do that from the bench? Obviously, I'll be shooting and hunting with the gun either offhand or with a tree/treestand rail as a rest. I.e., NOT from a bench. But, wouldn't adjusting sights from the bench, taking out all the micro flinches and breathing movements etc. out of the equation before accurate? If it shoots PEEFECTLY from a bench, but not perfectly offhand, wouldn't that tell me the difference is due to ME, my form, my eye, and not the gun? The "me" part can be approved upon via practice, right?

Artificer said:

Also, I don't figure my "final adjustments" to my sights are done with bench rest shooting, though I file the front sight close and move the rear sight close. My final adjustments are done from Off hand shooting, since that's the way I use a muzzleloader most of the time.

Gus

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