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Length to weight to balance.....

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Sparkitoff

Sparkitoff

40 Cal.
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I am seeking input on what it takes to get a "portable", well-balanced flintlock rifle. My first inclination is that I want a shorter rifle but that may be false perception.

The current rifle is a .54 that is just over 60" overall length (I have come to understand this is not that long). The weight is in the upper 11-pound range. It is slightly front heavy. The barrel is 1-inch and 36-inch length. For some semblance of balance the stock is slightly longer than I would usually use and it has some weight added to it.

I really enjoy the rifle but have some gripes that may or may not be justified. I recently carried it for nearly 8-hours on a hunt. At times it became difficult to carry comfortably and to maneuver. The following day I admit to sore shoulders and slightly swollen traps and delts. There is no hooked breach so it does not come apart for easy transport and I have yet to find a hard travel case that it fits. I did make a soft padded case for car and range use.

I'd like to have a .54 up to a .62. I prefer a flat or very slightly concave butt. It would be nice if it fit in a conventional case. A weight under 10-pounds would be really favorable. PRB shooter. I have a budget that does not reflect some of the custom builds I see on TOW and other sites for sale. There are a few I can reach but none with these specs, yet.

I've been pointed towards the Lyman Deerslayer flintlock; a Jaeger style rifle; a RMC Sporter; and a custom build "short rifle". I have some concerns about the Lyman lock and the 1:48" twist along with the F/O sights. I do not know much about Jaeger's in terms of specifications. RMC sells a .50 only in 1:28" and I have only found one short rifle for sale that seems a wee bit less accurate than I am comfortable with (although any new to me rifle may be a gamble in accuracy).

Any thoughts on balance vs. length? Possible offerings out there? Any consideration of the aforementioned rifles? Ideas on good "portability" with weight and balance considerations regardless of length?

Thanks!
 
TC Renegade stock w .54 GM IBS barrel (32”). An L&R replacement lock would be nice. If you can’t find a GM IBS, you can buy a barrel and needed components.
 
4” off a 1”x.54 is 2/3 of a pound. It’ll seem lighter than that and balance will move toward your shoulder.
 
Sparkitoff said:
I am seeking input on what it takes to get a "portable", well-balanced flintlock rifle. My first inclination is that I want a shorter rifle but that may be false perception.

The current rifle is a .54 that is just over 60" overall length (I have come to understand this is not that long). The weight is in the upper 11-pound range. It is slightly front heavy. The barrel is 1-inch and 36-inch length. For some semblance of balance the stock is slightly longer than I would usually use and it has some weight added to it.

I really enjoy the rifle but have some gripes that may or may not be justified. I recently carried it for nearly 8-hours on a hunt. At times it became difficult to carry comfortably and to maneuver. The following day I admit to sore shoulders and slightly swollen traps and delts. There is no hooked breach so it does not come apart for easy transport and I have yet to find a hard travel case that it fits. I did make a soft padded case for car and range use.

I'd like to have a .54 up to a .62. I prefer a flat or very slightly concave butt. It would be nice if it fit in a conventional case. A weight under 10-pounds would be really favorable. PRB shooter. I have a budget that does not reflect some of the custom builds I see on TOW and other sites for sale. There are a few I can reach but none with these specs, yet.

I've been pointed towards the Lyman Deerslayer flintlock; a Jaeger style rifle; a RMC Sporter; and a custom build "short rifle". I have some concerns about the Lyman lock and the 1:48" twist along with the F/O sights. I do not know much about Jaeger's in terms of specifications. RMC sells a .50 only in 1:28" and I have only found one short rifle for sale that seems a wee bit less accurate than I am comfortable with (although any new to me rifle may be a gamble in accuracy).

Any thoughts on balance vs. length? Possible offerings out there? Any consideration of the aforementioned rifles? Ideas on good "portability" with weight and balance considerations regardless of length?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Are you certain that it weighs over 11 pounds? I have a Hawken full stock with a 36" barrel in ,34 caliber and the rifle weighs less than 9 pounds. It is slightly muzzle heavy, which is good as it allows the rifle to hang steady while aiming.
 
Go with something that has a swamped barrel. The lightest barrel will be the largest caliber available for a given profile. Balance is much better with a swamped barrel.
 
Nothing beats a swamped barrel for balance and portability. Three of my rifles have them and the other two have straight barrels. But the straight barrel rifle are featherweights with .36" and 38" barrels. My .54 is a US M1841. It weighs at least 9-1/2 pounds with a 33" tube. Still, my heaviest rifle, excluding the 1841, is my .40 lancaster with a swamped barrel.
 
For hunting I like a 38" swamped barrel. In a .54 that would be a "C" profile. In a .50 it would be a "B" profile. Both rifles balance very well and the .54 comes in under 8 pounds, the .50 a half pound or so lighter.
 
I'm six foot and medium range as far as body strength goes.
32" rifled GM .62 on a TC Hawken flinter suits me. Having that much metal removed from the barrel makes it balance and hold very well with the TC stock.
 
Like Hanshi & Darkhorse said, a swamped barrel is the way to go.

I have a 1" x 36" 54 cal also, i know how heavy the are and if its a half stock you have the weight of the rib also.

Next gun will be a swamped 54 if I have to whittle out a poorboy myself.
 
Sparkitoff said:
I am seeking input on what it takes to get a "portable", well-balanced flintlock rifle. My first inclination is that I want a shorter rifle but that may be false perception.

The current rifle is a .54 that is just over 60" overall length (I have come to understand this is not that long). The weight is in the upper 11-pound range. It is slightly front heavy. The barrel is 1-inch and 36-inch length. For some semblance of balance the stock is slightly longer than I would usually use and it has some weight added to it.

I really enjoy the rifle but have some gripes that may or may not be justified. I recently carried it for nearly 8-hours on a hunt. At times it became difficult to carry comfortably and to maneuver. The following day I admit to sore shoulders and slightly swollen traps and delts. There is no hooked breach so it does not come apart for easy transport and I have yet to find a hard travel case that it fits. I did make a soft padded case for car and range use.

I'd like to have a .54 up to a .62. I prefer a flat or very slightly concave butt. It would be nice if it fit in a conventional case. A weight under 10-pounds would be really favorable. PRB shooter. I have a budget that does not reflect some of the custom builds I see on TOW and other sites for sale. There are a few I can reach but none with these specs, yet.

I've been pointed towards the Lyman Deerslayer flintlock; a Jaeger style rifle; a RMC Sporter; and a custom build "short rifle". I have some concerns about the Lyman lock and the 1:48" twist along with the F/O sights. I do not know much about Jaeger's in terms of specifications. RMC sells a .50 only in 1:28" and I have only found one short rifle for sale that seems a wee bit less accurate than I am comfortable with (although any new to me rifle may be a gamble in accuracy).

Any thoughts on balance vs. length? Possible offerings out there? Any consideration of the aforementioned rifles? Ideas on good "portability" with weight and balance considerations regardless of length?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
You struck on one of my pet peeves in rifles. Rifles are not shotguns. In fact a "well balanced" rifle makes a poor offhand rifle, this is why ML shooters can more often than not outshoot people with modern brass suppository guns. This all comes from the shotgun world where being able to swing the gun for moving targets is a prime requirement. This is why Schuetzen rifles are always muzzle heavy and shotguns not. This stabilizes the rifle in the standing position but it makes a shotgun clumsy. Longer barrels give 2 advantages, they give a longer sight radius and they swing slower. I.E. the "wobble" is smaller. Weight helps do the same thing within the ability of the shooter to hold up the weight. I have a fairly short barreled FL inspired by English Sporting rifles. Its a good hunting rifle, but its still more front heavy than the English guns of the time of similar caliber (its a .67). But I did not want too much taper to the barrel and wanted enough breech to use a 7/8" breech plug so its 1 1/4" at the breech. I goofed drilling the rod hole (brain slipped a gear, gotta shim the breech end UP in the channel when drilling a rod hole for a 1/2 stock with a tapered barrel to keep the hole parallel with the bore, I know that but...) so the forend is deeper that it could have been. My .50 "wender" is heavier but I shoot it well standing, it has 40" barrels. So don't get too ambitious in making a rifle balance like a shotgun. They are intended for different purposes.
 
The Wender has 50 cal B weight swamps with some cut off both ends to make 44" 39". They have flintlock "false" breeches that bring them to 40". its 11 pounds+ IIRC
I don't think I ever weighed the "Manton" style rifle. The English style rifle is handier to get in and out of the pickup. But kicks a lot harder too.
IMGP1191.jpg
IMGP0151.jpg
 
Dphar1950 said:
This is why Schuetzen rifles are always muzzle heavy and shotguns not. This stabilizes the rifle in the standing position
Click to expand...

But Schuetzen rifles also have deep, hooked "U" shaped butt plates to counter the muzzle heaviness. Target is one thing, fun plinking and hunting are another. 99% of hunting is carrying your rifle- a 1" barreled muzzle heavy 10 pound gun will wear you out, a neutral balanced 10 pound gun will hardly be noticed. Personally I think a swamped barrel gun setup for neutral balance, or slightly ahead of neutral balance would serve better for overall use.
 
Sparkitoff said:
I am seeking input on what it takes to get a "portable", well-balanced flintlock rifle. My first inclination is that I want a shorter rifle but that may be false perception.

The current rifle is a .54 that is just over 60" overall length (I have come to understand this is not that long). The weight is in the upper 11-pound range. It is slightly front heavy. The barrel is 1-inch and 36-inch
Click to expand...
First of all it will help us to help you if your information is correct. Doing a comparison to my flintlock of 59.25" OAL I feel your 60" needs to say 50". My gun has a 44" barrel.
To get a better balance I suggest getting a swamp barrel rifle. I know budget is always a hinder, but a swamp will help get your balance and cut the weight also. As far as a gun case, get a blanket from a thrift store and make one. It is real easy and more traditional. JMO
Good Luck
Flintlocklar:D
 
Dphar1950, you are correct, IMHO, concerning rifles for offhand shooting. A rifle with a swamped barrel makes a superior all around rifle, but it's seldom the better choice for offhand. I had a .50 X 42" flintlock with a straight barrel that weighed in the 8-1/2 lb to 9 lb range and was noticeably muzzle heavy. I used it to take deer and also shot targets with it. The thing about this straight barrel rifle is that it was the easiest rifle I've owned for shooting accurately offhand. On target the muzzle moved so very slowly and stayed in such a tight figure "8" pattern that it was quite easy to keep all shots centered and tightly clustered. Such a rifle would be my choice for serious target work. The swamped ones did it all and did it well; but the straight barrel .50 when fired offhand left them all in the dust.
 

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