Kai Benedict
.50 caliber
Anyone have success in repairing threads in the drum. Probably overdose taps and nipple?
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Repair of nipple threads in drum
- Thread starter Kai Benedict
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8 BORE
50 Cal.
Maybe better to buy a new drum
Yep, new drum. Curious how threads got damaged. Nipples do not need removal very often.
Before I try to answer your question, I (and all the others who will chime in with answers) would like to know some more information about your rifle.
How did the threads become damaged?
Is the rifle a production rifle or custom made? Who made it?
What are the threads on your nipple? 14-28 or metric 6-1.00
What are the threads on your drum?
How long is your drum?
How often do you shoot your rifle?
What powder are you using? Black powder or a substitute?
Does the drum have a "clean out screw"?
Can you upload a picture of the lock and drum?
The simple answer to your question is yes. But if the repair is to be long lasting a restore your rifle to safe to use status we would like to have some answers to the above questions.
Replacing a drum can involve some intricate machine work. You will need a drum of the same diameter as the recess in your lock.
How did the threads become damaged?
Is the rifle a production rifle or custom made? Who made it?
What are the threads on your nipple? 14-28 or metric 6-1.00
What are the threads on your drum?
How long is your drum?
How often do you shoot your rifle?
What powder are you using? Black powder or a substitute?
Does the drum have a "clean out screw"?
Can you upload a picture of the lock and drum?
The simple answer to your question is yes. But if the repair is to be long lasting a restore your rifle to safe to use status we would like to have some answers to the above questions.
Replacing a drum can involve some intricate machine work. You will need a drum of the same diameter as the recess in your lock.
Tom Compton
54 Cal.
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- Oct 21, 2008
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Either open up and use an oversized nipple (Track of the Wolf has them) or put in a helicoil.
While helicoils are used in many applications to repair stripped out threads, I would not recommend a helicoil repair to repair damaged threads in a drum. The coil can go too deep in the nipple seat and block the flash channel and the coil is very hard and may fracture when the gun is fired.
Not too long ago one of the muzzleloader manufacturers used helicoils to repair some damaged threads. As I recall, all the effected guns were recalled. I wish I remembered the details.
Search this Forum using the keyword helicoil. Lyman and the IBS replacement barrels used helicoils. Yes, there was a recall. Whoops, it was T/C.
Lets wait for necchi to respond.
Not too long ago one of the muzzleloader manufacturers used helicoils to repair some damaged threads. As I recall, all the effected guns were recalled. I wish I remembered the details.
Search this Forum using the keyword helicoil. Lyman and the IBS replacement barrels used helicoils. Yes, there was a recall. Whoops, it was T/C.
Lets wait for necchi to respond.
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We need a little more information.
What's the gun? What's the nipple size used for that gun?
There are several options to make repairs but it can be specific to maker or style of gun.
Spanish factories use drums, custom builders use drums,,
What do you got?
8 BORE
50 Cal.
When did T/C use a drum and nipple and not a bolster.
All my CVA's use replaceable drums
All my CVA's use replaceable drums
Where in this thread does someone say T/C used a drum?
longcruise
70 Cal.
Whatever it is, you can get a .255 tap and the appropriate drill bit (look up the size) and drill it and tap it. If the present threads are .250 x 28 you won't be able to simply chase them. Even if it's metric you can still go to the .255 threads if the metric is small enough.
Track has the .255 nipples. I think they sell the oversized taps in a set of four sizes for more $$$ than you will spend if you just Google up the correct size and buy one.
You can replace the drum on the CVA but it's a pain.
Track has the .255 nipples. I think they sell the oversized taps in a set of four sizes for more $$$ than you will spend if you just Google up the correct size and buy one.
You can replace the drum on the CVA but it's a pain.
I said that. I did a search on helicoils. I found these messages dated in May of 2018.
Then It was realized that the helicoil problem was in the IBS for a T/C and the helicoil was installed in the snail.
None the less, lets avoid using a helicoil to repair stripped nipple threads.
You are far better served by tapping for the oversized nipples and getting full thread engagement.
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8 BORE
50 Cal.
Well there you go. That answers the 40 thousand dollar question
Here's what Zonie had to say back in September of 2018. It is especially wort noting the possibility of interference at the bottom of the nipple seat.
Once upon a time, Green Mountain used some incorrect taps to thread the nipple holes in the breech plugs installed in the barrels made to fit the Thompson Centers.
To fix this error, they redrilled the hole and installed a Heli-Coil screw thread insert.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with this however many buyers were upset about getting "reworked" barrels when they thought they were getting brand new barrels. (They were brand new barrels and breech plugs but that didn't matter to the buyers).
To make everyone happy, GM tossed the "reworked" breech plugs and machined new ones.
I mention this because although it is very unlikely that Green Mountain would have any of these "reworked" breech plugs now, they might so you could try contacting them.
Even if they don't have any of the scrapped breech plugs, the idea of using a Heli-Coil® to fix your problem still is worth considering.
On the web, I just found a 1/4-28 thread Heli-Coil® for $0.80. The special tap would probably cost less than $10 so, for about $11 + postage you could have the repair in your hand.
If you do go with the Heli-Coil® method, several things need to be mentioned.
The cross drilled flame channel that connects the nipple with the bore will intersect the Heli-Coil® at the bottom. The length of the insert will be 1/4" long.
Some method must be used to keep that flame path open. If the breech plug has a "clean out hole", you can use it to drill thru the installed insert. That was the original purpose of the "clean out hole" so it can be used again to do the same job.
One of the problems with this type of screw thread insert is they tend to unscrew when the male screw/nipple is removed.
Using a very small amount of a thread locking fluid to bond the insert in place can keep this from happening.
The new Heli-Coil® will be almost as large as the body of the nipple. (see drawing below)
This won't really hurt anything but hot gasses can pass up thru the threads if they are not sealed.
This is a good reason for using some epoxy to bond the insert to the breech plug rather than thread locking compound (which is very thin).
The drawing was made to show folks the differences between using a Heli-Coil® to install a spark plug and using one for a muzzleloaders nipple.
It shows how little of the shoulder on the nipple will contact the breech block to seal it, compared with a spark plug which has a large sealing surface and a spark plug gasket.
As for strength, the pull out or "blow out" strength of the Heli-Coil® is far superior to just a machined thread.
I actually have one of those GM IBS recalls.
I did send it in to have the breech replaced, it took nearly a year to get the barrel back.
GM IBS are not T/C, (?)
I'm still here with "Who said T/C ever had a drum breech?"
I don't get it ? T/C doesn't do drum breech, never did,
I did send it in to have the breech replaced, it took nearly a year to get the barrel back.
GM IBS are not T/C, (?)
I'm still here with "Who said T/C ever had a drum breech?"
I don't get it ? T/C doesn't do drum breech, never did,
Necchi, I misspoke when I implied that T/C had a drum breech. I was trying to dissuade the original poster from installing a helicoil in his drum breech when I brought up the issues with the helicoils in the GM IBS barrels with the T/C snail with the helicoil in the breech. T/C barrels do not have a drum breech.
I regret and apologize for the confusion caused by my message.
I regret and apologize for the confusion caused by my message.
For the record: for many years the Dixie Gun Works catalog, along with many other so-called 'facts' about muzzle loading, stated it was OK to force fit an oversize nipple into a damaged drum or patent breech thread. I always cringinged when I read that. It seems like a potentially very dangerous thing to do. As others have suggested, get a new drum and remove the nipple very infrequently.
Kai Benedict
.50 caliber
Thanks for all the replies. I thinks for long term use I’ll probably replace the drum. For rifle info, I was built by my dad a very long time ago.and my dad just pass away I September 2018. A good friend had the rifle. And decided I should have it. Not sure if I’ll shoot it but I wanted to repair it. No one knows much about the gun. Other than it was a custom.
Tom Compton
54 Cal.
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2008
- Messages
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I have a .50 with a helicoil that’s been over 20 years. I’ve known engine heads that had spark plug threads repaired with helicoil and lasted for years. Yes, they can be installed incorrectly. I will install a helicoil again if the need arises.
A few years ago I blew out the nipple in my first bp rifle, a kit CVA Mt. Rifle (non-replacement drum) I built. Using a series of nipple sizes loaned by a gunsmith friend, I recut the threads to .255 and bought a half dozen replacement nipples from Dixie. The rifle had thousands of rounds through it at the time. Failure was due to me cross threading the darn thing back when it was pretty new, say 1979-80. I have shot another 700 or so rounds through it since the repair without a problem. I would do it again if the need arose.
