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Opinions on age of this Shooting Bag?

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dwagner

Pilgrim
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Hello - I am new to the forum and would appreciate some expert opinions on this Shooting Bag.

I believe it to be old, as opposed to an aged modern production bag. But is it OLD or just kind of old? I was hoping that the style of the stitching and the way the brass buckle was made might be an indicator of when it was made.

Also, what kind of fur is this? It is blonde at the base, with dark streaks near the tip, and is rather course.

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Hello Rick - Yes, I think that's it! I couldn't place this stiff fur, or the length, but a big possum would do it.
 
Doesn't look too different from a groundhog pelt bag that I have but possum is also a good option. The complexity of the bag and the detail level of construction make me think later rather than earlier but these things are very hard to date with any accuracy. The brass fittings could easily have been recycled from something else. I normally cut any brass 'D' rings, buckles, etc. out of any harness that Mrs Coot is disposing.
 
Hello, Coot - That's another great option. This pelt is greasy. I figured it was just dirty, but greasy coarse fur sure describes the groundhogs here in my back yard, plus they are all this big as well.
 
The stitching appears to be pretty fine and awfully straight to have been hand done. Appears to me to be a later, possibly, commercial made bag.
Mark
 
I agree that it looks like groundhog fur. I don't know about the age of the bag...............watch yer top knot.................
 
I don't think it's hand-sewn - looks like it was sewn on one of those old c-frame harness repair machines. Maybe too new for this forum - 1880's - 1900's?
 
I can't help much. But, it looks expertly crafted. I do believe the stitiching is by hand, some folks are very good with that. The fur looks to be beaver from here. Unlikely possum, IMHO.
The rings and buckles could be old or recent made repros. Decorations are very craftsmanlike. It's a puzzlement, fer sure. Methinks the greatest honor you could do for that bag is to find a craftsman to reproduce one just like it. Or, if you have the skills, do it yerself.
BTW, thanks for the good pics. Too often questions like this are accompanied with really lousy pics that are wuthluss for helping identify the item in question.
 
The fur looks like badger to me. If I were to take a guess, I think it might be a German--or maybe Austrian--game and shooting bag. It has that continental European look to it. Old, but not really old---as mentioned, the stiching does look machine made, but that could put it any time past 1860 or so. Then again, I've seen hand stitching that was so fine and regular that it could be mistaken for machine made.

Badger hunting with dachshunds, badger fur items, wearing tufts of badger fur on the hat, etc., is still kind of a German subculture thing.

Rod
 
The buckle looks to be a 18th century British style, and original. I don't know what age the bag may be, but the strap does appear to be machine stitched.
 
Looks like a relatively new (1930's - 1970's) to me.

Foster From Flint
 
Don Wagner said:
I don't think it's hand-sewn - looks like it was sewn on one of those old c-frame harness repair machines. Maybe too new for this forum - 1880's - 1900's?

By the construction techniques, I think you are right in your dates, late 19th Century. Certainly no later than the 1920s.
 
Howdy!

Thanks for the pictures.

Looks to be of a reasonable modern construction, as mentioned. But the fur, looks to be of a summer-thinning coon skin to me.
If its 30 years or so old even, the hair may be thinning from lack of care, being used, or just handled a lot.
 
Aren't you glad you asked? :doh:
We ekeespurts have nailed it down to: old/new: hand/machine made: beaver/possum/badger/groundhog fur: American/English/German design.
Glad we could help. :wink:
Whatever it is, a nice repro would be a great prize.
 
With respect to all but the comments re: being machine sewn are a bit funny to me - in the world of professional leather crafters all machine sewing is compared to hand sewing when noting the quality of the stitch - GOOD hand sewing is the Gold Standard not the other way around and GOOD hand sewing is of overall better quality and looks. FYI There is recorded/extant hand sewing as fine as 60 stitches per inch ( that's right I said sixty and don't ask me how exactly they did it, amazing but true) and most high end period and modern Euro made hand sewn leather goods usually feature sewing in the 12-20 SPI range with fine thread (most crafters in the USA commonly use 5-7 SPI with thicker thread)
I believe this is bag is hand sewn based - on the next to last pic there appears to be backstitching on the upper/centerpiece which indicates hand sewing, but one way to check to be positive is in the same pic look at the piece on the left that appears to be partly opened up along the stitch line - if the threads meet in the middle and are hooked together via a loop of one thread through the other than it's machine sewn. If the two threads go back and forth through both top and bottom then it's hand sewn using the typical harness stitch - if you can't tell for sure but good take a closeup up of tha area.....
While viable sewing machines were first used commercially by the 1850's, dedicated leather sewing machines were not developed until the late 1870's. So if machine sewn it is most likely late 1800's early 1900's. If hand sewn it could be earlier, but like others have noted, IMO this is a late 19th Century product and not an older or much later product - the wear and tear on the leather is the real McCoy, natural aging not forced.
As for origin - I actually had a similar bag in my shop a few years ago and after much searching found that it was German product and it was not a hunting bag, but CRS has set in and I don't remember exactly what it was used for (A type of dispatch bag maybe?).
Therefore I agree with Rod L - this is most likely a late 19th Century professionally made German product, the fur is also most likely badger as noted (I've got two skins sitting in my shop that are a VERY close match), the rolled leather button is a typical German item, the only real "question" in my mind is the double D buckle - normally an 18th Century item but one that could have easily been re-purposed.
FWIW - the bag could easily be refurbished by a good pro with experience in such - the leather looks to be in good enough condition that it could be "stabilized" to prevent further damage or it could be replaced if so desired although IMO I'd stabilize than put it on display rather than using it.
 
LaBonte said:
I believe this is bag is hand sewn based - on the next to last pic there appears to be backstitching on the upper/centerpiece which indicates hand sewing, ...
I agree. If people think this is machine sewn, please explain how the foot on the machine can sew this close to the metal ring. (I'm assuming all machines have a foot)

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