Any idea what this is?

[dan_1]

 

[dan_1]

View attachment 295708

My brother was given this from a house he remodeled. It was hanging over a fireplace. It looks like a smooth bore at the muzzle, but the barrel is so full of rust and dust it could just be tapered for easy loading.

 

[longcruise]

Just a tip, when you photograph guns a bright white background like that throws the contrast into extreme and the subject becomes a dark silhouette. Medium blue or red is better. If you have a medium carpet in the house that will work very well. Here's an example:

 

[dan_1]

Just a tip, when you photograph guns a bright white background like that throws the contrast into extreme and the subject becomes a dark silhouette. Medium blue or red is better. If you have a medium carpet in the house that will work very well. Here's an example:

View attachment 295877

Thanks. Can you see enough detail in the pictures I posted?

 

[longcruise]

Thanks. Can you see enough detail in the pictures I posted?

No, but I'm using a phone which makes it difficult too. I probably can't identify it anyway the lock looks a bit 1803 Harper's Ferry but that's an iffy observation.

 

[Clark Badgett]

No, but I'm using a phone which makes it difficult too. I probably can't identify it anyway the lock looks a bit 1803 Harper's Ferry but that's an iffy observation.

The lock is a later commercial lock.

 

[dan_1]

No, but I'm using a phone which makes it difficult too. I probably can't identify it anyway the lock looks a bit 1803 Harper's Ferry but that's an iffy observation.

It's not high quality. The ferrules are thin sheet steel that are blued. I'm pretty sure it's a 20g gun. It has a very thin barrel and it's not even.

The lock looks like it says PA & S . SMALL.

 

[Sam squanch]

That was a decent lock when new. I think it was just a banged up shotgun made up from available parts to feed a poor family. Used until the father could get a better gun, then passed down to the kids, or left loaded in the barn.

 

[dan_1]

That was a decent lock when new. I think it was just a banged up shotgun made up from available parts to feed a poor family. Used until the father could get a better gun, then passed down to the kids, or left loaded in the barn.

I hadn't checked to see if it has a charge in it. I'll do that today and run a patch down the barrel.

 

[Sam squanch]

If the barrel is ok inside it might be worthy of a clean up and restock.

 

[Notchy Bob]

@dan_1 ,

That is a very interesting gun. Better photos, using the tips from @longcruise , would help, but from the images we have and comments that were made, I have a few thoughts and questions.

I think I see a rear sight, so this was a weapon intended to be deliberately aimed. The thin sheet-metal ramrod pipes suggest it was not an expensive piece. The stock has nice lines. The shape of the cock and the roller on the feather spring suggest a late-era flint lock to me, and possibly one of good quality. I’m thinking this gun might be a so-called “frontier gun” made in a small shop by a skilled craftsman from recycled parts. The “approximately 20 gauge bore” would be about right for a trade musket barrel.

Questions: Does it have a buttplate? Is the barrel full round, or octagon to round ? Does it have a sideplate (opposite the lock), and if so, what does it look like ?

I think any attempt at proper restoration might not be cost effective, but this is a good piece for display and study. Thank you for showing it!

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Brokennock]

I hadn't checked to see if it has a charge in it. I'll do that today and run a patch down the barrel.

Careful with that.
A bore that old and rough is begging to grab that patch and get your jag and rod stuck in there.

 

[dan_1]

@dan_1 ,

That is a very interesting gun. Better photos, using the tips from @longcruise , would help, but from the images we have and comments that were made, I have a few thoughts and questions.

I think I see a rear sight, so this was a weapon intended to be deliberately aimed. The thin sheet-metal ramrod pipes suggest it was not an expensive piece. The stock has nice lines. The shape of the cock and the roller on the feather spring suggest a late-era flint lock to me, and possibly one of good quality. I’m thinking this gun might be a so-called “frontier gun” made in a small shop by a skilled craftsman from recycled parts. The “approximately 20 gauge bore” would be about right for a trade musket barrel.

Questions: Does it have a buttplate? Is the barrel full round, or octagon to round ? Does it have a sideplate (opposite the lock), and if so, what does it look like ?

I think any attempt at proper restoration might not be cost effective, but this is a good piece for display and study. Thank you for showing it!

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

The barrel is full round end to end.
It does have a steel butplate
The back side has noticeable tan lines where a side plate was, but now there are 2 small plates.

 

[French Colonial]

Just a tip, when you photograph guns a bright white background like that throws the contrast into extreme and the subject becomes a dark silhouette. Medium blue or red is better. If you have a medium carpet in the house that will work very well. Here's an example:

View attachment 295877

Absolutely agree with longcruise, medium color the best. The best background and recommended by professional photographers is medium gray. I have a gray blanket that works very well but other colors will also work.

 

[dan_1]

Careful with that.
A bore that old and rough is begging to grab that patch and get your jag and rod stuck in there.

The barrel is completely filled with grease. I could only get the ramrod about 6" down the barrel!

 

[dan_1]

The barrel is full round end to end.
It does have a steel butplate
The back side has noticeable tan lines where a side plate was, but now there are 2 small plates.

Correction: The barrel is hexagon from the rear sight back. The edges are rounded over so its not an obvious transition.

I also measured the muzzle at .58. I'm going to take a stab and say it's a 54 cal smoothbore!

 

[Clark Badgett]

Front finial of the trigger guard looks French, as does the bow. The barrel may be as well. Can’t see the buttplate finial. With the late flint export quality lock, I’m going to guesstimate it’s a parts gun possibly assembled for sale to immigrants.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Careful with that.
A bore that old and rough is begging to grab that patch and get your jag and rod stuck in there.

Amen to that!

I believe there is a species of imp that I call "the Patch Demon" that lives down in the breeches of neglected muzzleloaders. You push a jag with a patch on it down there and he'll grab it, and your rod, too. I have exercised the full extent of my expressive vocabulary in trying to pull out rods that were caught that way. It may be best to use a shotgun "loop" on your rod and put a patch in that, or use an undersized jag and secure the patch to it with a thread around the narrow neck of the jag. If you feel any resistance at all pushing it in a rusty bore, it's going to be hard to pull out.

Thanks for the additional photos and comments. I'm not sure what to make of your gun. I'm sort of leaning toward a gun put together out of odd parts, but the photo in post #13 shows checkering on the wrist. I would not expect to see that on a knocked-together frontier gun. I wonder if it might have been a pretty nice gun when first built, but then later repaired by a workman less skilled than the original builder. It's an enigma, but a lot of old guns are.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[2 shots]

maybe a new england militia type piece??

 

[dan_1]

Amen to that!

I believe there is a species of imp that I call "the Patch Demon" that lives down in the breeches of neglected muzzleloaders. You push a jag with a patch on it down there and he'll grab it, and your rod, too. I have exercised the full extent of my expressive vocabulary in trying to pull out rods that were caught that way. It may be best to use a shotgun "loop" on your rod and put a patch in that, or use an undersized jag and secure the patch to it with a thread around the narrow neck of the jag. If you feel any resistance at all pushing it in a rusty bore, it's going to be hard to pull out.

Thanks for the additional photos and comments. I'm not sure what to make of your gun. I'm sort of leaning toward a gun put together our of odd parts, but the photo in post #13 shows checkering on the wrist. I would not expect to see that on a knocked-together frontier gun. I wonder if it might have been a pretty nice gun when first built, but then later repaired by a workman less skilled than the original builder. It's an enigma, but a lot of old guns are.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

The house it came from is the Dupont mansion in Ostervill. I don't have any other details. I think my brother should hang it over his fireplace and come up with like it was president Lincoln's when he was out killing zombies!