Muzzleloaders and firearm laws

[Tumbledown]

Here in Idaho, free America, no black powder gun (I.E.) cap and ball or muzzleloaders are classified as firearms and can be bought online and shipped to your door. Serial# or not.

That is true in many areas. However, having sufficient powder, ball, and caps to load and shoot with together with the gun is often legally considered as loaded, whether or not the gun itself actually is.

 

[Sixgun_Symphony]

Game Wardens seem to have more powers than other law enforcement officers. They don't need a search warrant when investigating suspected violations of game laws. Then can search your vehicle, your boat, your coolers, and they can go onto your fenced private land too. This is due to the "open field doctrine" of the courts, they don't consider the 4th Amendment applicable to open fields.

 

[Wawyasto]

Game Wardens seem to have more powers than other law enforcement officers. They don't need a search warrant when investigating suspected violations of game laws. Then can search your vehicle, your boat, your coolers, and they can go onto your fenced private land too. This is due to the "open field doctrine" of the courts, they don't consider the 4th Amendment applicable to open fields.

Yeah I've seen where LE have played fast and loose with this, like having a game warden present during a driver license/DUI checkpoint so they have an even easier time with fishing expeditions and justifying tossing a car's contents inside out. Luckily my local Sheriff and county attorney, despite other faults, don't play this game.

 

[gunpa]

That manure doesn't fly around here unless you already have a record. I have too many friends in LE to even worry about it.

 

[DixieTexian]

That is a Federal thing - all migratory game is non-lead only.

Dove are migratory game birds and it is perfectly legal to hunt them with lead shot in most jurisdictions.

 

[Colonial Boy]

Count your blessings, here in Australia the general law is antique firearms don’t have to be registered unless they are to be fired.
Here in New South Wales the same applies plus antique cap and ball revolvers ownership has to be notified unless to be fired, when full registration is the order of the day; all modern muzzle loaders have to be registered this includes reproductions and homemade .
The latter is such a hassle that I’ve not bothered building one for years.

Incidentally, muzzle loaders come under a stricter classification than .22 rim fires and bl shotguns.
Thus a Brown Bess is in a more restrictive category than a hammerless auto ejecting double barrel 12 gauge breach loader- - -figure that out!!

 

[Rudyard]

I think the expression is' I hear You' . Your states seem to vie with each other to dream up negative stupid laws Like QLD there where scarce any laws then the' pollies' must have figured they aught to invent some to keep up with the other stupid States and did so costing me my double 500 3" BP Express & a 40 cal flint ml the first I ever made I kept on a cattle Station . No logic just bastardy . Now we have the loony left in NZ .Who proceeded to make scapegoat all duly liscence gun owners for no crime except they Might be a problem when the real culprit of the 52 shot in CH Ch was the inept Police granting Tarrent a liscence despite being warned by the Clubs he was a fruit loop . This comes out in the Royal Commision but most of the finding are' Sequestered' for 30 years . We have had ' Justice ministers' but nothing resembling Justice Political idealism & a stacked deck is what we got so far. Rudyard

 

[Eterry]

Watched one of the Game Warden shows. Warden cut apart a shot shell to see if it was lead or steel shot.
He DID ask if the shooter had a receipt showing if he bought lead or steel shot shells.

A good friend is Dallas SWAT, and when they had a reality show he told me that ALL Reality Shows are 10% Reality and 90% Show.

 

[Eterry]

Dove are migratory game birds and it is perfectly legal to hunt them with lead shot in most jurisdictions.

I'm sure new2bp meant all migratory Waterfowl.

 

[Whughett]

Here in Idaho, free America, no black powder gun (I.E.) cap and ball or muzzleloaders are classified as firearms and can be bought online and shipped to your door. Serial# or not.

Ditto for Rhode Island. As to serial numbers I have a Remington NMA and a Burnside Carbine whose serial number dates them to the ACW.
Would seem serial number were originally intended for purposes other than firearm registration purposes.

 

[Whughett]

Dove are migratory game birds and it is perfectly legal to hunt them with lead shot in most jurisdictions.

I believe the No lead shot law was intended for water fowl hunting and was based on much the same reason DDT was outlawed. Protection of the species from harmful effect s of ingested substances.
Doves aren’t apt to picking up lead pellets from the ground.

 

[yellowhammer]

Here in Idaho, free America, no black powder gun (I.E.) cap and ball or muzzleloaders are classified as firearms and can be bought online and shipped to your door. Serial# or not.

They must be considered firearms in Houston, since they're giving people cash for them in gun buyback programs (link) :

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Game Wardens seem to have more powers than other law enforcement officers. They don't need a search warrant when investigating suspected violations of game laws. Then can search your vehicle, your boat, your coolers, and they can go onto your fenced private land too. This is due to the "open field doctrine" of the courts, they don't consider the 4th Amendment applicable to open fields.

Well that might be true on the West Coast, but it isn't at all true out here in Maryland.

LD

 

[sportster73hp]

Watched one of the Game Warden shows. Warden cut apart a shot shell to see if it was lead or steel shot.
He DID ask if the shooter had a receipt showing if he bought lead or steel shot shells.

Did the warden pay for the round? Those things are expensive, especially the steel shot.

 

[andy52]

Maybe not quite on point, but: I read a post earlier in which the member mentioned loading his shotgun with lead shot. Don't know where he is from let alone his applicable law. Lead is a no no here.
I have heard of Game Commission officers examining hunters' shot shells. Has anyone had a warden ask you to pull the load from your ML for a look see?

The steel shot (non-toxic) law only applies to waterfowl here in Missouri, all other game can be hunted with lead.

 

[SOLANCO]

The steel shot (non-toxic) law only applies to waterfowl here in Missouri, all other game can be hunted with lead.

My bad. I was thinking of ducks and geese but did not sate it.

 

[gunpa]

Smart wardens carry good magnets and don't cut up shells!

 

[deerstalkert]

That is true in many areas. However, having sufficient powder, ball, and caps to load and shoot with together with the gun is often legally considered as loaded, whether or not the gun itself actually is.

and here in free Idaho, there is no law against a loaded weapon in the vehicle.
our creed here is a unloaded gun is just a club.

 

[sheriff john]

Where things can get sticky are statutes regarding crimes such as assault, possession while intoxicated, brandishing, etc. whether the gun in question is cartridge or not.

"Capable of lethal use" regardless of the myriad of other legalities is what most should apply before doing some things - perhaps chasing trespassers or entering a "guns prohibited" situation. Different places - different legal interpretations. Common sense will save hassles that can be avoided, but there's always "that guy" who'll ruin a good thing for everyone else.

 

[skwerleater]

I have had a warden inspect my muzzleloader to see if it was legal. I was actively hunting at the time. At the time it did have to conform to a certain caliber size and projectile for hunting.
Wardens are governed by the same laws as police officers and a persons right to be free of unlawful search is the same for either.
Exceptions are usually, warrant searches, exingent circumstances, search subsequent to and arrest, consent to search, probable cause that a crime has/is occurring( which means you are probably getting a ticket or arrested) and searches for safety of the law enforcement official. It does give them a lot of options but the 4th n 14th amendments still apply.
Wardens are not permitted to enter private property without permission or a warrant, same as police officers.
Cars have a leaser threshold for searches, usuallly a car search is done for safety in the interior area where a driver or passenger has access. Other areas like trunk n cargo may require a warrant.