Ammunition

[JPFINO]

Ok, I'm more than new to this and I went and bought a "Hopkins and Allen .45 CA" rifle hoping I could use it for hunting...but apparently muzzleloading isn't a big thing where I live. My question mainly right now, is...Are balls and "regular bullets" interchangeable?

 

[hanshi]

Yes and no. shallow rifling generally does well with some conicals (bullets) while deeper rifling needs to have a diet of patched round balls. Some can do well with both.

 

[TFoley]

Be VERY careful here, folks, most 'bullets' have a jacket, and are definitely NOT interchangeable with a soft lead ball. The OP needs some serious face-to-face help before he does anything. My opinion, right?

 

[bubba.50]

If by 'bullets' you mean such as TC maxi balls, Lyman/Hornady plains bullets, Lee r.e.a.l. bullets then yes you can interchange them. How accurate will they be? Only way to know is try them and see.

If you mean jacketed bullets such as used in modern arms/ammo then the answer is NO!

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Projectiles

 

[ohio ramrod]

I use one of those Hopkin and Allen 45 caliber rifles as my deer hunting rifle. It shoots well with a 440 ball and a ten thousants patch, or a greased mini

 

[JPFINO]

I use one of those Hopkin and Allen 45 caliber rifles as my deer hunting rifle. It shoots well with a 440 ball and a ten thousants patch, or a greased mini

Have you ever tried a conical or sabot round or is it not recommended? And what's your load and effective range?

 

[TFoley]

My recommendation stands. The OP needs to spend some time WITH people who are familiar with muzzleloading. I have no more to add.

 

[TreeMan]

If what you mean by “regular bullets” is referring to using bullets meant for loading a 45ACP or 45 LC cartridges then NO they are not to be used in a muzzleloader. You need to continue reading, learning or finding a friend more knowledgeable to learn from.

 

[Whughett]

Semantics. Some people call loaded cased ammo “bullets”.

A bullet is by definition:
a round or elongated missile (as of lead) to be fired from a firearm broadly : cartridge sense 1a. 2a : something resembling a bullet (as in curved form) b : a large dot placed in printed matter to call attention to a particular passage.

Therefore a roundball is a bullet.

If you can stuff down the barrel it will shoot how accurate ????

Many hunters, not purist like many folks here, use jacketed pistol bullets in plastic sleeves call sabots. The sleeve is caliber specific, in your case 45.

OP is posting here because he probably doesn’t know someone in his area who shoots muzzleloaders.

Advise to OP. Research the internet, browse for books on Amazon or other sources, educate yourself from several sources other than one forum. There is no ready answer.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Have you ever tried a conical or sabot round or is it not recommended? And what's your load and effective range?

Yeah, we don't discuss the sabots. The are rather unnecessary in many cases when talking muzzleloading rifles. Try the patched round ball in .440 with some pillow ticking, and lube, and it should be fine for you.

The absolute most important thing is to develop an accurate load from the rifle. That, then, allows you to place your shot, since you only get one on the deer. There are two pretty sure areas on deer be they Sitka, Whitetail, Blacktail, or Mule, that when hit, the .440 round ball will dispatch the deer.

LD

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Ok, I'm more than new to this and I went and bought a "Hopkins and Allen .45 CA" rifle hoping I could use it for hunting...but apparently muzzleloading isn't a big thing where I live. My question mainly right now, is...Are balls and "regular bullets" interchangeable? View attachment 135910

You CAN NOT shoot ANY bullet in this rifle that is made for a modern firearm, ie. jacketed bullet! These rifle are designed to use soft lead balls or some form of conical lead bullet, some with a sabot, but that depends on the rifling etc. Do not attempt to shoot any modern jacketed bullet from this rifle! IMHO!

 

[doubleset]

Some of the "advice" from "experienced shooters" here is a little spotty and confused. And it's always difficult for an inexperienced reader to be confident in whom to believe.

Perhaps a good approach would be for the OP to invest in one of the good books available on black powder shooting, such as those mentioned in the thread Black Powder Shooting Books. That might add some confidence that he's at least starting with truly expert advice. Not that some of the advice here isn't genuinely expert. But for a novice, it's very difficult to winnow the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Whughett]

Yeah, we don't discuss the sabots. The are rather unnecessary in many cases when talking muzzleloading rifles. Try the patched round ball in .440 with some pillow ticking, and lube, and it should be fine for you.

LD

Sabot.
a device which ensures the correct positioning of a bullet or shell in the barrel of a gun, attached either to the projectile or inside the barrel and falling away as it leaves the muzzle.

Odd, would seem a roundball wrapped in cloth or paper would be by definition a saboted round.
Sorry couldn’t resist. Your talking about plastic of course.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Sabot.
a device which ensures the correct positioning of a bullet or shell in the barrel of a gun, attached either to the projectile or inside the barrel and falling away as it leaves the muzzle.

Odd, would seem a roundball wrapped in cloth or paper would be by definition a saboted round.
Sorry couldn’t resist. Your talking about plastic of course.

Except that the patch does not "ensure correct positioning of a bullet" but is a device to impart spin on the bullet from the rifling. The fact that it happens to position the bullet in a consistent manner doesn't make the patch an early sabot,

LD

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Except that the patch does not "ensure correct positioning of a bullet" but is a device to impart spin on the bullet from the rifling. The fact that it happens to position the bullet in a consistent manner doesn't make the patch an early sabot,

LD

The patch is a patch as you stated, not a sabot. Like early paper patched rounds, it was to engage the rifling and preserve integrity of the bullet.

 

[Whughett]

So if I drop a 440 roundball down the bore of my 45 caliber TC Patriot pistol unpatched it will be positioned correctly, not rattle around loose or fall out if the muzzle is positioned downward. And when fired it will fly straight and true down the center of the bore with out engaging the rifling. And none of the expanding gases will escape around the ball.

 

[doubleset]

Except that the patch does not "ensure correct positioning of a bullet" but is a device to impart spin on the bullet from the rifling. The fact that it happens to position the bullet in a consistent manner doesn't make the patch an early sabot,

LD

This appears contradictory and to confuse function with purpose. The patch does position the bullet (as you concede in your second statement) -- and positions it centrally in the barrel diameter (to at least some degree of precision). So it does "ensure correct positioning". That's a function of it, and that definition of "sabot" is a functional definition. The fact that the primary purpose of the patch may be to act as a gas seal in no way detracts from its function as a sabot. A sabot in a rifled barrel also serves as a gas seal -- which may be argued as its primary purpose since it is primarily employed to allow the firing of sub-caliber projectiles in a barrel. Indeed, a patch and a sabot appear to have the same primary purpose: to serve as a gas seal in order to fire a projectile that is smaller diameter than the lands of the barrel. So I'm coming down on the "patch is a sabot" side of this one.

Also, some definitions are better than others, and that definition isn't particularly good. Neither is the one in Wikipedia. They're not really definitions, but descriptions -- and emphasize specific aspects of the term.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

This appears contradictory and to confuse function with purpose. The patch does position the bullet (as you concede in your second statement) -- and positions it centrally in the barrel diameter (to at least some degree of precision). So it does "ensure correct positioning". That's a function of it, and that definition of "sabot" is a functional definition. The fact that the primary purpose of the patch may be to act as a gas seal in no way detracts from its function as a sabot. A sabot in a rifled barrel also serves as a gas seal -- which may be argued as its primary purpose since it is primarily employed to allow the firing of sub-caliber projectiles in a barrel. Indeed, a patch and a sabot appear to have the same primary purpose: to serve as a gas seal in order to fire a projectile that is smaller diameter than the lands of the barrel. So I'm coming down on the "patch is a sabot" side of this one.

Also, some definitions are better than others, and that definition isn't particularly good. Neither is the one in Wikipedia. They're not really definitions, but descriptions -- and emphasize specific aspects of the term.

I guess I am wondering why do we care? Like trying to argue "how many Angels can dance on the head of a pin?" who really cares?

 

[Whughett]

Actually it’s academic, my apologies for muddying the waters. It’s a slow day here in SW Florida. .

I do however get a little confused on some of the “ restrictions” applied to “muzzle” loading firearms and the down right animosity towards
some aspects of more modern approaches to the sport.

I’d be willing to bet as many games animals are brought down annually with the modern stuff as the traditional stuff. Each has its place.