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American Pioneer Powder
- Thread starter battman1
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
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twotoescharlie
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2005
- Messages
- 189
- Reaction score
- 1
makes good fertilizer.
TTC
TTC
FWIW here's my experiences with American Pioneer Powder (APP) and/or that Pinnacle powder sold by Goex (that is made for them by APP).
I have tried APP extensively in my percussion arms, specifically as it works fantastic with dry-lube patches ala the Dwight Shultz system. I used to use this method for the winter snowshoe/muzzleloading rifle biathlons, before I bought my 1st flintlock smoothbore.
At BEST, I found that APP was capable of reliable ignition (#11 magnum caps) and tight groups in temps down to 8-degrees (wasn't out in any colder weather
). APP does NOT build-up in the bore at all! I once posted photos on the MZL forums of a wiping patch after 1-shot and then after 30-shots and they look the same. Even with dry-lubed patches in ccccccold weather, I could shoot 30 or more shots with zero efforts loading (coned muzzles) as the unburnt powder doesn't cake or build-up or anything else bad, like leaving a heavy carbon or 'crud ring' ahead of the combustion area as does Triple-7 powder.
The barrel would also clean up in 5 patches or less using Butch's Black Powder cleaning solvent, which to me is the BEST cleaning solvent out there for BP arms, if you need to use something besides water. I now use water only in my flint smoothie, followed by a preservative oil (Ballistol).
At WORST, the APP powder is not designed for use in flintlocks and I believe you would need to use a duplex charge, by putting 10 grains or so of real BP down the barrel first before the APP rest of load. I had frequent failures to fire or slow firings until I switched to magnum caps in percussion arms.
Off-topic, but I know people that do the duplex loading, but that is because real BP is tough to buy here in Mass, while Pyrodex and all the other fake BP powders can be had at every sport shop, so some buddies of mine do the duplex loading just to keep them shooting. And yes ... we know all about groups buys, just remember there are tougher Fire regulations on the storage of BP than other powder types and these guys live in small apartments and don't have out-building where they can keep a cache of powder.
At WORST, APP powder is highly INCONSISTENT! One bottle I had was fantastic! With the next, the same load sounded like a squib load and would not group and was was off the same point of aim as the other. This happened to my brother and another friend and they have switched back to Pyrodex for their side-locks in their hunting arms (Yes, I tried to switch them to real BP, but to no avail).
At WORST, APP powder is very underpowered, being 100-200 FPS off the velocity for the same loading using Pyrodex or real BP. APP is also highly hydroscopic (attacts water) so you really need to be careful and diligent when opening it for use. They even recommend you don't put any powder back into the main bottle, so as not to contaminate the rest.
My summary of experience ... forget about APP powder ... and go buy some real black powder!
I have tried APP extensively in my percussion arms, specifically as it works fantastic with dry-lube patches ala the Dwight Shultz system. I used to use this method for the winter snowshoe/muzzleloading rifle biathlons, before I bought my 1st flintlock smoothbore.
At BEST, I found that APP was capable of reliable ignition (#11 magnum caps) and tight groups in temps down to 8-degrees (wasn't out in any colder weather
). APP does NOT build-up in the bore at all! I once posted photos on the MZL forums of a wiping patch after 1-shot and then after 30-shots and they look the same. Even with dry-lubed patches in ccccccold weather, I could shoot 30 or more shots with zero efforts loading (coned muzzles) as the unburnt powder doesn't cake or build-up or anything else bad, like leaving a heavy carbon or 'crud ring' ahead of the combustion area as does Triple-7 powder.The barrel would also clean up in 5 patches or less using Butch's Black Powder cleaning solvent, which to me is the BEST cleaning solvent out there for BP arms, if you need to use something besides water. I now use water only in my flint smoothie, followed by a preservative oil (Ballistol).
At WORST, the APP powder is not designed for use in flintlocks and I believe you would need to use a duplex charge, by putting 10 grains or so of real BP down the barrel first before the APP rest of load. I had frequent failures to fire or slow firings until I switched to magnum caps in percussion arms.
Off-topic, but I know people that do the duplex loading, but that is because real BP is tough to buy here in Mass, while Pyrodex and all the other fake BP powders can be had at every sport shop, so some buddies of mine do the duplex loading just to keep them shooting. And yes ... we know all about groups buys, just remember there are tougher Fire regulations on the storage of BP than other powder types and these guys live in small apartments and don't have out-building where they can keep a cache of powder.
At WORST, APP powder is highly INCONSISTENT! One bottle I had was fantastic! With the next, the same load sounded like a squib load and would not group and was was off the same point of aim as the other. This happened to my brother and another friend and they have switched back to Pyrodex for their side-locks in their hunting arms (Yes, I tried to switch them to real BP, but to no avail).
At WORST, APP powder is very underpowered, being 100-200 FPS off the velocity for the same loading using Pyrodex or real BP. APP is also highly hydroscopic (attacts water) so you really need to be careful and diligent when opening it for use. They even recommend you don't put any powder back into the main bottle, so as not to contaminate the rest.
My summary of experience ... forget about APP powder ... and go buy some real black powder!
Rat Trapper
62 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2006
- Messages
- 2,648
- Reaction score
- 7
It shoots ok in cap locks with mag caps and in in-lines using 209 primers. No good for rock locks. The new stuff is better than the stuff that came out at first. I prefer Tripple Seven or Goex. Triple seven is damn good in TC Hawkens (50 & 54 cal) when using CCI #11 mag caps and Hornady Great Plains bullets. Goex seems to be better in my Seneca and Cherokee rifles (45 & 32 cal).
buttonbuck
50 Cal.
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2005
- Messages
- 1,491
- Reaction score
- 5
I used it but goex is better overall for shooting I get more reliable results and it pours out of my brass powder dispencer. APP is hard on brass. I find goex to be a little more work to clean but worth it. I have not tried graff and sons German (I believe made by WANO) powder but have been told it is a bit cleaner and hotter. I support goex because it is a company that makes stuff in the USA and there is tons of data on shooting it from traditional styled muzzleloaders.
