But it don't seem to work. Tonight I tried to put some 4f in the pan and put my flint in and pulled the trigger several times and nothing. This is my new Traditions PA Rifle. Does someone have any ideas? All the flint does it put little nicks in the frizzen. Does anyone have a picture of a properly loaded flint in the rifle, maybe thats my problem.
-
This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.
Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades -
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
Tried to Make Sparks
- Thread starter paco97
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
It sounds like the frizzen is not hardened properly, and the flint is merely gouging it. There should be forums here telling you how to harden it yourself, or if you know someone who is into gun work they could do it for you.
Are you using a knapped flint or one of those cut agate ones?
Are you using a knapped flint or one of those cut agate ones?
:hmm: Some diagnostic questions...
Is the frizzen kicking open all the way when the flint strikes it?
How far up the frizzen does the flint strike it?
Are you using a leather pad between the flint and the hammer's jaws?
Are you using a good grade flint? Chipped or sawn?
I usually install my flints with the flat side up, so the flint strikes the frizzen higher. but each rifle seems to have it's own preference. Sorry, no photos available. After flipping the flint over, try adjusting it backwards and forwards in the jaws and see if you can find a point where it is as far out as you can get it, but it will still kick the frizzen open when fired. If you're not using a leather pad around the flint, use one. Otherwise the flint may be shifting (moving) when it strikes the frizzen. BY THE WAY...It's best to do all this without powder in the pan until you start getting sparks consistently. Safer and saves powder. Let us know how it goes.
Is the frizzen kicking open all the way when the flint strikes it?
How far up the frizzen does the flint strike it?
Are you using a leather pad between the flint and the hammer's jaws?
Are you using a good grade flint? Chipped or sawn?
I usually install my flints with the flat side up, so the flint strikes the frizzen higher. but each rifle seems to have it's own preference. Sorry, no photos available. After flipping the flint over, try adjusting it backwards and forwards in the jaws and see if you can find a point where it is as far out as you can get it, but it will still kick the frizzen open when fired. If you're not using a leather pad around the flint, use one. Otherwise the flint may be shifting (moving) when it strikes the frizzen. BY THE WAY...It's best to do all this without powder in the pan until you start getting sparks consistently. Safer and saves powder. Let us know how it goes.
Is the frizzen rubbing against the barrel? If you can remove the frizzen spring try it and see if this will produce sparks only need to do this once. OR If you can't put a drop of oil on the top of the spring where it and the frizzen meet and open and close several times and see if it gets easier.
Take a sharp(new) file and see if it scratches the face of the frizzen, if it does its not hardened properly. it should slide across like trying to file glass.
So much easier to see the problem with lock is in hand...
The first thing to attend to is the frizzen opening properly.
Take a sharp(new) file and see if it scratches the face of the frizzen, if it does its not hardened properly. it should slide across like trying to file glass.
So much easier to see the problem with lock is in hand...
The first thing to attend to is the frizzen opening properly.
***Sean***
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2006
- Messages
- 214
- Reaction score
- 0
How long do those flints last? Never owned a flint lock but I am thinking about it. Found a 20 pound flint rock the other day
Hey Paco, is it a new gun and flintlock? If so, do not get too discouraged, I have seen more than a few new rocklocks get off to a slow go, but once the frizzen is roughed up a bit, they do fine.
Take little alcohol on a rag, wipe the frizzen face and the leading edge of the flint clean & dry.
Make sure your flint is seated well back against the top jaw screw, let the cock down with flint onto the frizzen face, assure it has maximum even contact across said face, then tighten top jaw screw securely.
Also, if you have a few new flints, try some different ones, also try the flints with bevel up, and down. Don't get too stuck on attempting to get the flint real close to frizzen face in halfcock position. Sometimes less, is best, if flint is striking frizzen at a near head on 90 degree angle, not good. Shortening up the flint lets it then strike in more of a downward scraping arc. On a couple, I have even had to grind a vee in back of the flint so it would seat in the cock jaws deeper. Barring operator malfunction, (me) they were two of my best sparkers.
Take little alcohol on a rag, wipe the frizzen face and the leading edge of the flint clean & dry.
Make sure your flint is seated well back against the top jaw screw, let the cock down with flint onto the frizzen face, assure it has maximum even contact across said face, then tighten top jaw screw securely.
Also, if you have a few new flints, try some different ones, also try the flints with bevel up, and down. Don't get too stuck on attempting to get the flint real close to frizzen face in halfcock position. Sometimes less, is best, if flint is striking frizzen at a near head on 90 degree angle, not good. Shortening up the flint lets it then strike in more of a downward scraping arc. On a couple, I have even had to grind a vee in back of the flint so it would seat in the cock jaws deeper. Barring operator malfunction, (me) they were two of my best sparkers.
paulvallandigham
Passed On
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2006
- Messages
- 17,538
- Reaction score
- 80
If you are not getting sparks at all, the frizzen was not hardened. If you don't own a small propane gas torch, then find a local machine shop, ask them to heat the frizzen up to Red hot, and quench it in oil. Then, use a wire brush, or power tool to get the scale off the frizzen, and heat it to 450 degrees in your oven for two hours, and let it cool down overnight. It should spark just fine.
To set the flint, you should open the frizzen, and lower the hammer so you can see where the bottom edge of the flint is pointing in the frizzenpan. It should point to the center, or just forward of the center of the pan with a new flint properly positioned. Then cock the hammer back to the half cock notch, and close the frizzen. It should strike from the center to the bottom third of the frizzen. The frizzen should flip open completely when it is struck.
Make sure the frizzen pivots freely. The feather spring only needs to keep the frizzen closed when the gun is held upside down. Any more weight than that simply causes problems with crushing the edges of your flints and wearing them out sooner. Polish the contact point where the toe of the frizzen meets the top arm of the v-spring mirror smooth. You can use emery papers in ever smaller grits, a dremel tool with fine stones and then papers, or emery stones you get from a gunsmithing supply house, like Brownell's. If you have a small ceramic stone for sharpening knives, you may be able to use this to polish the surfaces, if it is fine enough.
Test the strength of the feather spring by using a trigger pull gauge- ask around to see if someone already has one they can let you use- and hook the arm of the gauge over the top of the frizzen and pull slowly forward until the frizzen snaps open. More than 3 lbs is totally unnecessary.
Make sure the side of the v-spring is not dragging against the lock plate. If it is, grind the side of the spring to eliminate the part that is touching. Measure the spring tension again. IF the spring is too strong, then reduce the spring tension by slowly grinding away metal on the outside of the arm of the spring, and if there is a lot of metal at the bottom of the "V", then grind away that so that the width of the metal at the bottom is the same as the width of the two arms of the "V" at the juncture. Keep water handy to cool the spring so you don't remove the temper, or soften it. Hold it in your hand when you are grinding so your fingers will tell you when it is getting too hot! Reduce the sides of the upper arm of the spring until the tension get to that 3lb. weigh or slightly less. Then reassemble the lock. Try the frizzen to see how well it snaps open.
If the mainspring is putting a lot of tension on the cock, or hammer, you should do to the mainspring what you did to the feather spring. Most of these spring are well over 20 lbs. You will have to rest the gun on a bathroom scale, take a starting reading for the weight of the gun, and watch the scale while you cock the hammer back. The highest reading on the scale should be recorded. Then subtract the beginning reading and you will have the mainspring tension in lbs. Unless you are shooting a Brown Bess, or another musket that uses the very large flints, you should do well with a mainspring that has only 10 lbs. in tension. They do work if the lock is set up correctly, and flint are set in the cock properly. However, you will probably want to stop and try out the gun when you get the spring down to 20 lbs. It will still work better than what you got from the factory. After you have shot it awhile, you may get the courage to take it down more.
Always check the lockplate on both inside and outside after you have shot the gun several times to see if there are any rub marks on the plate where something is rubbing against it. This is the visible evidence that something is not working properly, and causing the action to be slow. Remove the high spot, or burr, that is marking the place, and then polish the plate. Check it again several times to make sure that everything is moving freely.
If you are going to use leather instead of lead to wrap your flints, use rawhide, and not that tanned leather like is shown. Tanned leather is too soft, and creates a shock absorber that lets the edge of the flint bounce on the frizzen face instead of cutting a clean slice of metal from it to throw into the pan. The edge then loads with bits of steel, and finally dulls and won't spark because the cutting edge of the flint is physically being blocked by the metal chips in the edge. Then you have to knapp a new edge, which throws away expensive flint. My flints in my .50 ca. rifle routinely give me 60-80 strikes per flint. I sometimes do better than that. I don't have to knapp, and I don't ever worry about the gun going off.
To set the flint, you should open the frizzen, and lower the hammer so you can see where the bottom edge of the flint is pointing in the frizzenpan. It should point to the center, or just forward of the center of the pan with a new flint properly positioned. Then cock the hammer back to the half cock notch, and close the frizzen. It should strike from the center to the bottom third of the frizzen. The frizzen should flip open completely when it is struck.
Make sure the frizzen pivots freely. The feather spring only needs to keep the frizzen closed when the gun is held upside down. Any more weight than that simply causes problems with crushing the edges of your flints and wearing them out sooner. Polish the contact point where the toe of the frizzen meets the top arm of the v-spring mirror smooth. You can use emery papers in ever smaller grits, a dremel tool with fine stones and then papers, or emery stones you get from a gunsmithing supply house, like Brownell's. If you have a small ceramic stone for sharpening knives, you may be able to use this to polish the surfaces, if it is fine enough.
Test the strength of the feather spring by using a trigger pull gauge- ask around to see if someone already has one they can let you use- and hook the arm of the gauge over the top of the frizzen and pull slowly forward until the frizzen snaps open. More than 3 lbs is totally unnecessary.
Make sure the side of the v-spring is not dragging against the lock plate. If it is, grind the side of the spring to eliminate the part that is touching. Measure the spring tension again. IF the spring is too strong, then reduce the spring tension by slowly grinding away metal on the outside of the arm of the spring, and if there is a lot of metal at the bottom of the "V", then grind away that so that the width of the metal at the bottom is the same as the width of the two arms of the "V" at the juncture. Keep water handy to cool the spring so you don't remove the temper, or soften it. Hold it in your hand when you are grinding so your fingers will tell you when it is getting too hot! Reduce the sides of the upper arm of the spring until the tension get to that 3lb. weigh or slightly less. Then reassemble the lock. Try the frizzen to see how well it snaps open.
If the mainspring is putting a lot of tension on the cock, or hammer, you should do to the mainspring what you did to the feather spring. Most of these spring are well over 20 lbs. You will have to rest the gun on a bathroom scale, take a starting reading for the weight of the gun, and watch the scale while you cock the hammer back. The highest reading on the scale should be recorded. Then subtract the beginning reading and you will have the mainspring tension in lbs. Unless you are shooting a Brown Bess, or another musket that uses the very large flints, you should do well with a mainspring that has only 10 lbs. in tension. They do work if the lock is set up correctly, and flint are set in the cock properly. However, you will probably want to stop and try out the gun when you get the spring down to 20 lbs. It will still work better than what you got from the factory. After you have shot it awhile, you may get the courage to take it down more.
Always check the lockplate on both inside and outside after you have shot the gun several times to see if there are any rub marks on the plate where something is rubbing against it. This is the visible evidence that something is not working properly, and causing the action to be slow. Remove the high spot, or burr, that is marking the place, and then polish the plate. Check it again several times to make sure that everything is moving freely.
If you are going to use leather instead of lead to wrap your flints, use rawhide, and not that tanned leather like is shown. Tanned leather is too soft, and creates a shock absorber that lets the edge of the flint bounce on the frizzen face instead of cutting a clean slice of metal from it to throw into the pan. The edge then loads with bits of steel, and finally dulls and won't spark because the cutting edge of the flint is physically being blocked by the metal chips in the edge. Then you have to knapp a new edge, which throws away expensive flint. My flints in my .50 ca. rifle routinely give me 60-80 strikes per flint. I sometimes do better than that. I don't have to knapp, and I don't ever worry about the gun going off.
Wrapping your flint in lead slows the lock down and will damage it. Tanned leather is fine. That's what everyone I know uses. It just an inexpensive flintlock gun. They will drive you to drinking. Been there, done that lots of times. I finally figured out that cheapest isn't always the least expensive.
Sounds kinda like your flint isnt really hitting the frizzen much?The locks are suposed to take them little 5/8 flints traditions sell in the 3 pack.The hammer and jaws are at such a steep angle on these guns that the small flints have to run with the bevel down,sharp edge up.If not the jaw screw will hit the frizzen on the stroke and the frizzen will not pop open all the way.The flint wont make enough contact to the frizzen to throw spark.
The lock on my shennadoa is probably the same as the PA rifle.I went to a 3/4 flint and replaced the jaw screw with a hex screw from the hardware store,i belive its a 10/32.Wont hit on the frizzen and you can adjust your flints bevel up,sharp edge down untill there almost squared off from shooting.Right now i have no english flints and are using the preumiun TC flints,the white ones.I run bevel up till its almost squared then turn it around and run the bevel down till its almost a square flint.The TC cut flints have a edge on either side.
If you get it set up right you will not have to knap your flints.Like Paul said they are self knaping pretty much if you wrap the flint in lead and have the correct angle on the frizzen stroke.
The lock on my shennadoa is probably the same as the PA rifle.I went to a 3/4 flint and replaced the jaw screw with a hex screw from the hardware store,i belive its a 10/32.Wont hit on the frizzen and you can adjust your flints bevel up,sharp edge down untill there almost squared off from shooting.Right now i have no english flints and are using the preumiun TC flints,the white ones.I run bevel up till its almost squared then turn it around and run the bevel down till its almost a square flint.The TC cut flints have a edge on either side.
If you get it set up right you will not have to knap your flints.Like Paul said they are self knaping pretty much if you wrap the flint in lead and have the correct angle on the frizzen stroke.
Not no more,i used to all the time till i started listening to what Paul had to say.
You do have to adjust it forward as the flint wears down.After moving it forward i make sure the gun is empty and also the pan,pull the hammer back with the frizzen closed and pull the trigger.Might have to do this twice to get that sharp edge back and then its back to shooting.
Self knaping flints with a very hot spark.
I can thank Paul...AKA Rodney Dangerfield :haha: for his advise.
You do have to adjust it forward as the flint wears down.After moving it forward i make sure the gun is empty and also the pan,pull the hammer back with the frizzen closed and pull the trigger.Might have to do this twice to get that sharp edge back and then its back to shooting.
Self knaping flints with a very hot spark.
I can thank Paul...AKA Rodney Dangerfield :haha: for his advise.
arrowheadtax
32 Cal.
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2006
- Messages
- 10
- Reaction score
- 0
My wife has one too. What we had to do to get hers to work.....I used a T/C 5/8 flint and cut a groove in the center of the side that meets the screw holding the jaws. I cut a hole in the center of the leather holding the flint in the jaws. I placed the bevel down. Took the frizzen off and polished where it meets the spring. Sparks like a champ now. Wish I had done this BEFORE she missed a deer at 15 yards. (misfire)paco97 said:
Here is 2 pic's of my traditions flint. I found when I shoot this on the bench using the set trigger it will not spark. The lock on mine has an adjusting screw you can use to tune this lock. I don't use the set trigger and she fires without any hesitation. Guys I hunt with are really impressed how fast my gun ignites, no hesitation.
Paco97, it's realy easy. Take off the lock and there is a screw on the back side that the frizzen pivits on. Revmove the Frizen Spring first and then just remove the Frizen screw.
Guys is it just me or does that Frizzen Spring look odd? :shocked2:
Guys is it just me or does that Frizzen Spring look odd? :shocked2:
