Touch Hole Liner Use

[tg]

I used to use liners but tried a hole like the originals would have had and really could not tell the difference and I use 3f to prime and use a hole about 5/64 I like to get as close to the experience as I can to what the folks in the 18th century had, if one cannot satisfactorly make a plain hole or one with a bit of inside cone work they might consider caplocks, the fact that they were used on fine Euro guns or maybe on fine colonial guns or as repair and may not have been as common of a repair as cutting and rebreeching,does not make them PC for common guns or military guns.I cannot believe how documentation oriented some are but use the liners without a thought as to the PC factor.

"In the construction of a LR many non HC tools are used along w/ many non HC made parts, so using a TH liner isn't a big deal"

That is abput the biggest crock of rationalization I have heard in a long time,liners are mainly for those who cannot/will not try the old ways but they try to make them right in their own minds, usually with a better responce than the above.

 

[Stophel]

My goal is always to build a gun that looks and feels like a real 18th century gun. And if it has a big shiny silver circle around the touch hole, well, that doesn't look like an 18th century gun.

I don't miss touch hole liners anyway. I get plenty fast and reliable ignition with an ordinary touch hole. I do cone the inside, because it it easy to do so why not, but actually, I don't really notice the difference!

And when we're talking about a repair, remember, these were IRON bushings, not gold, not platinum, not bronze, not stainless steel. I have not gotten to examine one of these myself, but I wonder if they didn't sometimes press and peen them in place, rather than thread them in... :hmm:

I made myself a touch hole liner once years ago out of a high quality steel blank bolt (from Brownell's), before I learned how to cone a hole in the barrel. Works fine, and that one you can't see! :wink:

 

[Mike Brooks]

but I wonder if they didn't sometimes press and peen them in place, rather than thread them in...

That's how the Gold liners were done on English guns. I suppose the platinum were done the same way, but I don't know for sure.

 

[Stophel]

I thought that might have been the way that they were done. :hmm:

 

[smoothy]

I guess if I don't install liners in my existing flintlocks I won't know what I'm missing, if anything. I still don't know the advantage of a liner that it would make things so much better that your willing to give up period correct looking firearm.

 

[Tom Compton]

:dead:

 

[Vaino]

You're wrong, it's... :dead: :dead: :dead: . It seems the "purists" or HC/PC fans among us insist that we all do as they do or say and the more open minded folk, heaven forbid, don't go along...can you imagine that? So...the end result of a discussion between the "rigids" and the "open minded" is a dead heat or :dead:. I don't really care if someone uses a plain/coned TH or a TH liner....the world will actually be the same after either one is used so it must be a very minor event and nothing to get all "hepped up" about, eh?....Fred

 

[Mike Brooks]

I guess if I don't install liners in my existing flintlocks I won't know what I'm missing, if anything. I still don't know the advantage of a liner that it would make things so much better that your willing to give up period correct looking firearm.

Incredibly fast ignition.

 

[Stophel]

You're wrong, it's... :dead: :dead: :dead: . It seems the "purists" or HC/PC fans among us insist that we all do as they do or say and the more open minded folk, heaven forbid, don't go along...can you imagine that? So...the end result of a discussion between the "rigids" and the "open minded" is a dead heat or :dead:. I don't really care if someone uses a plain/coned TH or a TH liner....the world will actually be the same after either one is used so it must be a very minor event and nothing to get all "hepped up" about, eh?....Fred

As one of the "purists" here, I can say I have never insisted anyone do as I say. All I have done is say what I do, and talk about how things were done 200+ years ago. :wink: And still there are people who don't like that. It seems they don't want to hear that what they want to do is not "historically correct" (then why do they care anyway???)... :shake:

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Thanks for the reply. My flintlocks have drilled through touch holes only due to being hesitant at my abilities to install a liner correctly. I may consider having a professional install one later. But I haven't found much trouble with ignition as of yet. And I actually like the little bit of delay because of the romantic feeling it gives me. (No, I don't make love to my rifle.)

If you are getting a little bit of delay, you are not yet getting the best out of your flintlock yet. Properly set up, there will be no discernible delay at all. It is a measurable delay compared to a caplock if you have the necessary equipment to measure it, but humans can't tell the difference without the scientific equipment to measure it.

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[Swampman]

I guess if I don't install liners in my existing flintlocks I won't know what I'm missing, if anything. I still don't know the advantage of a liner that it would make things so much better that your willing to give up period correct looking firearm.

If they are installed correctly you can't tell they are there. They make ignition much faster and more reliable.

 

[David W.]

I agree with the :dead: If one likes liners, use them, if not, don't!

 

[tg]

"I agree with the If one likes liners, use them, if not, don't!"


Absolutely, just don't try to pass them off as a PC/HC item on common guns from the 18th century,and perpetuate the myth, that is the only point being addressed here really,they were not used or needed on new guns for the vast majority of the time, if a plain hole is not fast enough one might consider a caplock, just a suggestion.

 

[nkbj]

Liners let you make the hole smaller after you make it too big.
What will they think of next!

 

[gizamo]

Stophel and Mike,

Curiosity question. I have owned and seen a few SXS caplocks from the 1820's. These were English made guns and had platinum plugs on the sides of the breech. I always operated under the assumption that these were there to protect the gun from overpressure loads on the barrels. Any insight?

 

[Zonie]

IMO, overpressure had nothing to do with it.

The intense heat of the corrosive gas produced by burning black powder removes a very small amount of the walls of the touch hole each time the gun is fired.

Unlike iron or steel, platinum and gold are very stable so the intense heat and the corrosive gas does not erode the surfaces if the touch hole is lined with either one of them.

In all cases, whether we are speaking of the swaged in platinum or gold of by-gone days or the modern threaded stainless steel liners, they are easily capable of withstanding any breech pressure (even an overpressure) that is found in a muzzleloading firearm.

 

[gizamo]

Zonie...

Sorry if I confused things.....

I wasn't talking about touch hole liners. I was asking about a carry over of the English doubles that were by that time caplocked. They still had platinum plugs for awhile. Pretty sure Mike and Stophel know what I'm talking about.

 

[tg]

If ya use a touch hole liner yer a dirty Buzzard.....

 

[gizamo]

tg,

I'm about a 60/40 mix in my guns. Unfortunatly the 60% is TH Liners. Wish all my guns were traditional. Worse thing is that my best shootin gun has a liner. I ought to swap the barrel out and fix that problem.... :haha:

 

[nkbj]

So, what is the advantageous metallurgical property? Thermal conductivity, abrasion resistance or corrosion resistance? I'd guess abrasion resistance. But, could be all three.