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Touch Hole Liner Use
- Thread starter smoothy
- Start date
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Gizamo says...while munchin on freshly buttered popcorn... :grin:
I've got two Caywoods that it is impossible to tell if they are faster/slower than my guns with liners. That said, I definitly like the look of the original style touchhole over the stainless liner...
Might as well make the liners neon and glow in the dark.... :blah:
I've got two Caywoods that it is impossible to tell if they are faster/slower than my guns with liners. That said, I definitly like the look of the original style touchhole over the stainless liner...
Might as well make the liners neon and glow in the dark.... :blah:
hanshi
Cannon
With modern steel barrels readily accepted on PC/HC guns, I don't think it's a stretch to allow liners. Since it is quite possible to cone the inside (as well as outside) of a straight through TH, I don't imagine it was unknown or impossible for 18th century builders. IMHO (a guess, only) touch hole liners in common guns were most likely a repair of some sort. The rifling would probably wear out before a drilled through TH would.
I had a Brown Bess the would lose it's entire charge during a short hunt through the touch hole and it's loose fitting pan/frizzen. It was worn out from shooting. I fixed it with a vent liner and it worked perfectly after that.
I saw a common gun not long ago that had what appeared to be a vent liner that looked to have been done many years ago.
I saw a common gun not long ago that had what appeared to be a vent liner that looked to have been done many years ago.
My opinion, and its only an opinion, is that I want a gun that would pass off as original as possible. It is hard to tell what type of metal a barrel is made from by just looking at it. So why not use a good modern grade. It is harder to pass off a gun with a stainless steel liner because of its appearance, albeit slight. Coning from the inside of the barrel is hidden and wouldn't take anything away from the appearance.
That said, the shooting experience is likely different or people wouldn't have them installed in the first place. So I guess what I'm saying is that shooting with a straight through hole and working with it to be reliable is part of the period experience for me. It is the challenge afterall that partially draws me to use this type of gun for hunting and I want to get the feel for it the best way I can with my limited means. That's why I built my own flintlocks since I couldn't afford one built for me. And that is why I have straight through touch holes, they were simple to do.
That said, the shooting experience is likely different or people wouldn't have them installed in the first place. So I guess what I'm saying is that shooting with a straight through hole and working with it to be reliable is part of the period experience for me. It is the challenge afterall that partially draws me to use this type of gun for hunting and I want to get the feel for it the best way I can with my limited means. That's why I built my own flintlocks since I couldn't afford one built for me. And that is why I have straight through touch holes, they were simple to do.
Stophel
75 Cal.
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A vent liner is historically correct....for a very expensive European gun. And then it's gold or platinum. It is possible, of course, that some American gunsmith, probably in a coastal city, might have made a FINE gun with a gold liner for a wealthy client. Otherwise, no, they're not really historically correct. :wink:
This is a used, but not abused gun from the 1720 range, more or less (the lock is very worn out). The touch hole is fine . I haven't measured it, but looks about 5/64". Probably not quite 3/32". It is coned on the inside. The base of the cone is probably close to 1/8"...maybe 3/16". :wink:
Yes, there are period references to the tools used to cone touch holes. In the Journal of Historical Armsmaking Technology (I forget which volume, I think it is III), there is a treatise by a Herr Sprengel (I forget his first name, I don't have it in front of me) on gunsmithing. Kind of an overview, possibly used to entice youngsters to take up the trade, and for the general instruction of the public. He shows a hand cranked gizmo with a little cutter for cutting the touch hole cone. I would really like to make one for myself...someday. Someone on this board did make one, and it's pretty cool.
This is a used, but not abused gun from the 1720 range, more or less (the lock is very worn out). The touch hole is fine . I haven't measured it, but looks about 5/64". Probably not quite 3/32". It is coned on the inside. The base of the cone is probably close to 1/8"...maybe 3/16". :wink:
Yes, there are period references to the tools used to cone touch holes. In the Journal of Historical Armsmaking Technology (I forget which volume, I think it is III), there is a treatise by a Herr Sprengel (I forget his first name, I don't have it in front of me) on gunsmithing. Kind of an overview, possibly used to entice youngsters to take up the trade, and for the general instruction of the public. He shows a hand cranked gizmo with a little cutter for cutting the touch hole cone. I would really like to make one for myself...someday. Someone on this board did make one, and it's pretty cool.
In the construction of a LR many non HC tools are used along w/ many non HC made parts, so using a TH liner isn't a big deal. I sell all my LRs and don't expect the customer to fiddle around w/ a drilled TH, so I always use the "White Lightning" liner and have never rec'd even one call asre ignition. I build spec LRs so if a prospective buyer doesn't like a liner, he doesn't buy my LRs. To each his/her own, I guess...Fred
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I always do, but on the entry tip of my tapered rod only.
What do you mean by "and don't expect the customer to fiddle around w/ a drilled TH"? Do you mean trying to get good ignition with a simple drilled touch hole? If it is then you must want a customer to have a good experience with the gun you built for them, which I respect. This is what I'm trying to find out, does it make that much difference using a liner? Please don't read any sarcasm into this question, its not intended. I sincerely want to know.
Well, I just re-read this post from start to this point. I guess there are a few schools of thought on this:
1. Liners were rare in America, except for repairs and not coned to get the priming closer to the main charge. Some prefer this as it may appear to be more pc.
2. There are those that won't build or own a flintlock without a liner. I haven't read why this is preferred, it may be too obvious and doesn't require stating.
3. This is a nit-picky topic and why can't we all just get along.
1. Liners were rare in America, except for repairs and not coned to get the priming closer to the main charge. Some prefer this as it may appear to be more pc.
2. There are those that won't build or own a flintlock without a liner. I haven't read why this is preferred, it may be too obvious and doesn't require stating.
3. This is a nit-picky topic and why can't we all just get along.
The "White Lightning" TH liner yields very fast ignition but its main advantage is consistent ignition. In this forum there have been many posts concerned w/ the dependability of flintlocks and the TH is one of the factors that has been discussed ad infinitum and includes many TH "fixes", eg...using a pick after every shot and wiping the bore a certain way as to not "clog" the TH. Installing an inside cone at the TH is a good idea for those who object for HC reasons or whatever and it satisfies their "sense of what's right" which is a good thing, but...for an easy way to foolproof ignition, a TH liner such as the "White Lightning" does the job and myself and all my customers think so, but in the end, use whatever makes you comfortable....Fred
Thanks for the reply. My flintlocks have drilled through touch holes only due to being hesitant at my abilities to install a liner correctly. I may consider having a professional install one later. But I haven't found much trouble with ignition as of yet. And I actually like the little bit of delay because of the romantic feeling it gives me. (No, I don't make love to my rifle.)
