The ongoing saga of my new flintlock.

[Scout1]

Howdy gents I'm back again in the pursuit of more knowledge. As some of you may remember I've had a couple of threads related to this rifle. Before I start allow me to add this refresher. I'm not new to shooting muzzleloader rifles, have about 40 years into them But I am new to flintlocks.. However my following concerns, I believe, are not related to the type of ignition system.

My new flintlock is in 36 caliber with a 42 inch swamped Colerain barrel. Davis dual set triggers and a Siler lock. This is not my first 36. I also have, since new, a 30 year old Ted Fellows Beaver Lodge percussion lock rifle with set triggers and I believe a Green Mountain 36 inch barrel. This rifle has always been a fantastic shooter.

Now on to my new rifle and concerns. In order to narrow down what it likes I've been trying out various ball / patch material combinations. In common with all of the following combos is; all patching is of the bulk variety and cut at the muzzle. Patch lube is olive oil. Powder and charge is Goes 3f, 40 grains. I have always had success in the past with this. The ball / patch combos are as follows:
.350 Hornady ball, .010 patch
.350 Hornady ball, .015 patch
.350 Hornady ball, .018 patch
.358 cast ball, .010 patch
.358 cast ball,.015 patch
After only 1 to 2 shots maximum ALL of these combos begin to be very difficult to load. Let me explain. From the muzzle for the first 1/3 to 1/2 of the barrel it is very difficult. Past that point it is very easy all the way to the breech. What's going on ? I've never had this happen in my other 2 rifles.

Next, ALL of the above combos refuse to group. I'm shooting at 50 yards from a very solid benchrest position. With my other .36 I can shoot sub 1 inch groups pretty much on demand. These "groups" are in the 4 to 8 inch range.

Lastly and thank you for your patience. I've noticed that my lock is EXTREMELY sensitive to the lock bolt tension. 1/2 turn too loose or 1/2 turn too tight and my set triggers refuse to "set". This is another first for me. Is this normal ?

I apologize for this extremely long post. If you have read it all I applaud you. Please help.

Jim

 

[Zonie]

What do the shot patches look like?
They are usually the easiest thing to use to figure out why a rifle won't group well.

edit:
As for the loosness or tightness of the patched ball in the barrel goes, I have never seen a bulged barrel do what you say your barrel is doing.
With a bulged barrel, usually the patched ball is resistant to ram, then it becomes very easy to ram followed in a few inches by going back to the resistant to ram.

That said, I don't think this has anything to do with a badly damaged barrel.

 

[Grenadier1758]

How often do you wipe the barrel to try to control the fouling. Small bore 36 caliber rifles can build up a lot of fouling in a hurry. GOEX 3f can be fairly clean but there will be fouling. Olive oil can help to capture the fouling and it doesn't take many shots for the fouling to build up to the point that loading is difficult. With all that fouling in the barrel, its not surprising that none of your loads will group.

Switch to a more fouling controlling lubricant such as Mr. Flintlock. Just dampen the patch. Wash the patch material to remove the sizing and draw in the lubricant as well. A softer patch will wipe the fouling from the grooves as the lubricant softens and draws the fouling into the patch and also onto the top of the powder charge.

 

[Eric Krewson]

Hoppes #9 blackpowder cleaner and patch lube will let you load over and over with no resistance.

 

[smo]

More powder!

 

[ADK Bigfoot]

+1 on the powder. The higher the pressure (within limits) the less fouling. My .36 wants .360 round balls, and 50-70 grains of powder.

ADK Bigfoot

 

[Kansas Kid]

Maybe the lube is failing towards the end.

 

[tenngun]

On your lock I would first look at the set screw, your second trigger may be a bit high. If you need you might have to file your triggers down a bit. ( I just had to do that on a new build, I set the trigger a red body hair too deep and after a few shots it wouldn’t cock).

 

[Scout1]

I recovered some of the .018 patches a few days ago and they looked fine. Today I looked for some of the .015 and .010 patches but did not find any. ( There's alot of ground clutter on our range )

I was doing a 80 % barrel clean every 4 to 5 shots.

Plan on picking up some Hoppes number 9 plus. Had good experience with it decades ago.

The 40 grain charge has worked very well for me for a long long time.

I normally wash all bulk patching. But all of this has been straight from the packaging.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Also, you have a new gun. Don't expect your new rifle to group until some of the edges on the lands get smoothed out.

I don't think the 0.010" patches are going to seal off the barrel.

Besides the fact that you have been successfully shooting your Ted Fellows 36 for the past 30 years. What else could be different that might have an effect on accuracy. Be well aware that you should not expect identical performance from these two rifles. Do you wipe the bore when shooting the Fellows' rifle?

More powder may improve the groups.

 

[Scout1]

Yes I normally wipe the bore when shooting the Ted Fellows 36. But due to concerns over ignition problems I followed some advice here and have not been wiping between shots on my new rifle. I have about 60 to 70 shots through the new rifle.

 

[satwel]

May I suggest you also try neatsfoot and jojoba oils for your patch lube. I used jojoba oil in my flintlocks for years with much success but lately I've started using neatsfoot oil and I think it works even better. You can buy neatsfoot oil at Tractor Supply stores. I don't know any flintlock shooters who use olive oil.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Your lube is running out near the muzzle.
Olive oil on its own is failing before the shot has gone. You said it's crusty near the muzzle etc.
Melt some fat into it to make a grease.

Others mentioned running in a new barrel, this is very true.

 

[smo]

I don't know any flintlock shooters who use olive oil.

I use olive oil exclusively for hunting patches.

I punch them out and stack them in a cap tin adding just enough OO too dampen them.

After they sit a few days you can barely feel the OO on them and they work well in my gun.

Smaller caliber guns require more swabbing to keep them going, or at least mine do.

I own a .32 and a .36 and I usually spit patch after each shot.

I’m using Swiss fffg in them as well, it seems too burn a little cleaner than Goex fffg.....

 

[Scout1]

The more I think about it the more I'm coming to agree that it's a lube problem. I never noticed it in my Ted Fellows percussion 36 because I always run a patch after a shot which is preventing any build up of fouling. But with this new flintlock I've stopped swabbing since that may have been contributing to misfires.So while olive oil as a patch lube has always been successful for me, the combination of using it and not swabbing is not and contributing to loading difficulty and various loads not grouping. I have a bottle of Lehigh Valley lube on hand and will try to find some Hoppes 9 Plus today.

As for the lock bolt tension. It just seems to be way more sensitive then it should be.

Jim

 

[Grenadier1758]

How many lock bolts do you have? If you have two, then back the front bolt out half a turn and see if that helps.

 

[Britsmoothy]

The other way is to ram a lubed patch first and then your patched ball.
Your adding extra lube and a firewall.

 

[springfield art]

+1 on the powder. The higher the pressure (within limits) the less fouling. My .36 wants .360 round balls, and 50-70 grains of powder.

ADK Bigfoot

Yikes! If it works, good. But the Civil War musket was 60 grains, a small .36 being pushed by 70 grains!? Must be a long barrel?

 

[Grenadier1758]

I know I was one of those that suggested more powder. The OP was using 40 grains of 3fg GOEX. Maybe less powder and a different lube after about 100 shots to smooth the bore. His Colerain barrel should have been pretty smooth. I think he is changing his lubricant and loading procedure to something more like what was working in his other 36 caliber rifle.

 

[just4fun63]

I’ve got to second the recommendation for MR Flintlock lube. I got 13 shots without swabbing from my .32 last time out.