TC Lock Inlet

[Grantman]

I found a gorgeous TC Hawken stock from a percussion model. The wood is by far the best I've ever seen on any factory muzzleloader. Question: Is there any problem with swapping lock and barrel from my TC Hawken flint rifle to the percussion model stock?

 

[bubba.50]

sometimes ya hafta scrape a bit more wood out of the inlet to get the pan tight to the barrel but other than that it's a drop-in swap.

 

[Grantman]

I just got home and found the "donor" rifle on my enclosed porch. I took a chance on this rifle, since all I saw was a picture showing mucho figure for small money. Well, the figure is there and then some! Condition is 99%. I'm thinking this is a very early rifle serial 16***. Stock is unusual having a much more pronounced cheek piece then my mid seventies rifles and the top front of the cheek piece drops off steeply-doesn't blend in like my rifles. No warnings on barrel, and no QLA or Hawken stamp-just TC address and 50 cal. Tang has three screw holes. Questions?: Anyway to tell if barrel is Sharon or Douglas? Anyway to tell if this is a TC Custom Shop rifle?

 

[Cowboy]

Stock is unusual having a much more pronounced cheek piece then my mid seventies rifles and the top front of the cheek piece drops off steeply-doesn't blend in like my rifles. No warnings on barrel, and no QLA or Hawken stamp-just TC address and 50 cal. Tang has three screw holes. Questions?: Anyway to tell if barrel is Sharon or Douglas? Anyway to tell if this is a TC Custom Shop rifle?

No, it's not a Custom Shop rifle. The TC Hawken was introduced in December of 1970. The Seneca in August of 1973 and the Renegade made its debut in November of 1974.

The earlier TC Hawken rifles came with the earlier style stock that you've described. The earlier ones also had steel furniture in the beginning then changed over to brass sometime later.

As far as the TC barrel's are concerned. There have been quite a bit of speculation and myth about these barrels. A lot of us have asked all the same question's that your asking. You will get a zillion different responses. I know I did!

What I,m going to tell you is based on an artical that was published in the Black Powder Gun Digest, 2nd Edition 1977. Chapter #31 titled: Birth Of A Muzzleloader is an interview with Warren Center of Thompson/Center.

In the beginning, TC had Douglas make their barrel's for them. What T/C did was buy already rifled blanks which had merely been bored and rifled by Douglas. This was OK in the beginning until the demand began to drastically increase. TC then decided to make their own barrels in house.

How does Sharon fit in all this? Also during the early 70's Sharon Barrel Company out of Kalispell Montana, was also turning out high end Traditional Muzzleloader's. They made quite a name for themselves known for their quality and accurate barrel's. Sharon made a drop in barrel for the TC Hawken. TC never had Sharon make any of their barrels for them.

The markings on your barrel that you've described are from the earlier TC Hawken. They only had the address and caliber on them. No lawyer talk printed on the barrel's neither. Also had the clean out screw as well. On the bottom flats you might find a Maltese Cross, Heart, Spade, capital M with a circle around it.

The newer barrels didn't have any of these markings and had the BP only printed on them, no clean out screw, and Hawken printed on the flats as well. The very latest version did have the QLA.

In conclusion: It's near impossible to accurately date when your barrel was made? TC had a fire and all records were destroyed. Any guess would be pure speculation.

One thing I can say for sure is that according to Warren Center of Thompson Center, their barrels were originally out sourced to Douglas who only bored and rifled the blanks and then TC finished them up in house. Then TC took over and started making their own barrels. Other companies like Sharon for example, made drop in barrel's for the TC Hawken but never directly sold them to TC but rather to the public. Sort of like what Green Mountain did as well.

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[MSW]

Cowboy's answer is more informed than mine, but here goes:

yes.

the stocks are interchangeable between percussion and flint in the Renegade design. I have two stocks. One started as a flinter in .50, and remains in that configuration.

the other is a piece of what was once probably a kit and I picked it up at a show for a great price... it has figure to die for. I was going to put a percussion .62 smoothie (which started as a rusty .54 and was bored out) in there, so I got a percussion lock and began collecting all the furniture. Then when I went to clean the barrel, the breech plug came loose, which I took as a sign that it was supposed to be a flinter, which is what I wanted in the first place, so I got a flint breech plug and installed that (talk about a 'dance around the flagpole...') ... now I have two flint barrels, and a percussion stock and a flint stock ... hmmm ... need another barrel, so off to fleaBay and viola: a new (to me) .54 in percussion... now I have a flint with a .50 rifle and a .62 smooth, and a percussion with a .54 rifle. all the barrels interchange.

hope this makes sense - it's late for me, since I've been up all night...

good luck with your project!

 

[bubba.50]

when the Hawken came out in 1970 they 'sposedly started at serial # 1000. usin' Cowboy's date of December, that would mean most first year guns woulda actually been made in '71. the furniture on the first year guns wasn't steel, it was brass with the exception of the triggerguards which were case-colored steel. they were changed to brass by the second year with all other features remainin' the same for several years. I had one in the 7000's # range & the guard was brass so, addin' another 9000 or so to get to yer 16000's gun, it's likely a '72 or '73 model.

as Cowboy said, you can get in the same arguments as to whether they're Sharon barrels or not as you can with CVA Mountain Rifle shooters as to if the early USA marked barrels are Douglas or not. both of my first year guns have the Maltese Cross on the bottom. did Sharon make them? who know or cares. just be happy that they're awesome shooters & don't get hung-up on nonsense like that.

 

[Grimord]

I truly love the T/C renegade platform. I have a flint rifle with 50 & 54 barrels, and a percussion gun with .32, .36, .45, 50, 54, 56 &.58 barrels. The .45, 50, & 54 barrels are green mountain drop in round ball twist barrels, the 56 is a smoothie, and the .58 is a Big Boar barrel. This gun is very versatile. When i go to camp, I bring a big bore barrel and a small bore for versatility, but sometimes I just bring the smoothie. Great guns, sorry they are not being made anymore.

 

[don hepler]

I have a 4 digit flintlock TC Hawken. It has the high comb and larger cheek piece. I think it has the Maltese cross on the barrel. I have a Renegade that had a 1" 50 cal. barrel, but I fitted a 15/16 GM barrel, using 1/32 shim. I found an Armi-Sport 20 gage, choked smooth bore barrel. In order for it to fit, I had to mill the little slot in the snailed breech, to fit over the lock plate. I also had to turn the dove-tailed barrel wedge, 180 degrees to get the barrel wedge to fit. I have a 32, 36, 45, 50, 54 and .62 in various barrels and stocks to fit TC's.

Man, this stuff is like Tinker Toys.

 

[bubba.50]

just like you said "tinker toys". :haha:

with the exception of the 36cal I've had every one of those you mention in a Hawken or Renegade plus 58 Big Boar & 58 rifled & 62 smooth GM barrels.

my meager selection now is first year Hawkens in 45 & 50cal plus a 54cal Hawken. and a Renegade bored to 62 smooth.


and, except mine are caplock.

 

[don hepler]

Most of the one's mentioned are cap lock and the smaller calibers are in Cherokee and Seneca stocks.

A flintlock Seneca, would be awesome.

 

[Grantman]

I finally got time to field strip the TC percussion. The Maltese cross is on the bottom flat. I had to run a tap through the brass ramrod end-no threads present, but had been drilled to accept a tap. Weird. I did find a film caked on inside the barrel-maybe old WD-40? I used alcohol and a nylon brush to clean the gunk out. It looks absolutely pristine inside-no sign of black on the cleaning patches. Wish my flintlock barrel looked this good.

 

[Mort Scott]

i have what i was told by folks at thompson center that the riffel i have, with a 54. cal. sharon barrel works stamped on top. sharon barrel was one of their early makes could not hit the barn n with it so i replaced it with a green river. shoots good now ; great bear killer.so i am going to say sharon barrel works made barrels for thompson in the early times.

 

[Cowboy]

Mort, I too have a Sharon Trade rifle and have done a little research on them as well. Here is an old add that they put out at the time
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showpost.php?post/1267747/

If you look at the very bottom of their add you will notice that they sold Replacement Barrels that would fit the T/C rifle. They did not ever make barrel's for T/C.

Not saying that you didn't call T/C. If that is the case I would believe Warren Center and what he says about their barrel's over anyone else in that company at the time. After all, he is one of the founder's of Thompson Center.

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[Billnpatti]

Thank you, Cowboy, Since my barrel has a 4 digit ser. # starting with 6, I know it is one of the earliest barrels and based upon what you said, must be a Douglas barrel.

Thanks for your info. :thumbsup: