Somewhat satisfied with Lyman

[adirondack46r]

I posted this on another thread, but I wanted to follow up with a question. How satisfied are you with Lyman in general?

Got a GPR from Midsouth a couple of weeks ago. I read the threads about barrel fit and when it arrived the fit was very poor. I sent it back and they shipped me a new one. The fit is much much better.

I am very happy with Midsouth. I am a little disappointed in the fit/finish/quality of both the product and the customer service from Lyman. I disassembled my gun this weekend gave it a good cleaning and got familiar with all of the mechanics and I am generally happy.

While I think the GPR is a solid gun, I am surprised at the number of quality issues that consumers are willing to accept from Lyman, e.g. stock fit, nipples needing to be replaced, hammers needing to be heated and bent, sights needing to be filed etc. My expectations were higher than this. I didn't realize buying a GPR meant I had to become an amateur gunsmith.

In classic consumer satisfaction survey terms, I am "somewhat satisfied". And when I get to the range and work up a load, I am hoping I am "very satisfied".

But I'll ask again, how satisfied are you? And in addition, why are you willing to live with these issues?

46r

 

[laney1566]

I think in order to get a trully great well tuned muzzleloader that has no issues from a quality gunmaker, your looking at at least a grand. Many cost 1500 or more depending on wood quality.

The mechanism on Lyman products are basic and reliable. Having Traditions and CVA ML's as well I think Lyman has a better product.

As far a becoming a Gunsmith....
I would be very concerned about anyone who is into BP that didn't know every part of their gun.
I chose kit guns for that very purpose.
Some things require a little effort in life and like the men of old that weilded these bad boys, we must embrace a DIY attitude to get the most out of em.
Besides.........It's FUN!!!

BTW...My answer is VERY SATISFIED

 

[jbtusa]

I agree that a new gun should have all of the minor details worked out. The problem is that it seems all of the production guns have minor issues that must be fiddled with until one is satisfied. I had to fiddel with my GPR and I had to fiddle with my Renegade, both bought brand new. Over all, I still prefer the GPR because of its accuracy. Once you shoot your new GPR, I bet that you will be more than satisfied once you see the groups that it will shoot.

 

[BrownBear]

I haven't seen a ML yet, no matter the brand or custom maker, that didn't take fiddling to bring out its best. Some more, some less, but they all needed it.

As for filing the sights, that's why they invented adjustable rear sights. If you want primitive sights, that's why they invented files.

 

[hrchotaw]

I'm very satisfied with Lyman muzzleloaders,have a GPR and a trade rifle.Tinkering with the guns,loads,etc.is one reason muzzleloading is a blast! For me Lymans are a great gun for their price. I just remember they are based on centuries old technology! I too have had great service from Midsouth!!!

 

[Trot]

I have been very satisfied. Some choose to replace the stock nipple, but I never had any trouble with the stock one. Having to bend a hammer is a problem, but I had no such trouble. As far as filing sights, that is something you need to do with any non adjustable sights once you work up a load, nothing wrong there. I have had CVA's and my Investarms [Lyman] are far superior. Nothing up to the standards of a custom, but not near the price either.

 

[brubincam]

-----have a gpr bought new several years ago and the frizzen pan cover doesn't reach the barrel so I had to devise a washer to keep priming powder in the pan-----

 

[bobman]

I am on my second one in two weeks from Midsouth, they both have had poor alignment of the barrel with the stock channel I have to force the stock over to the lock side to get the barrel to drop into the barrel channel. The last one is better than the first one but definitely not correct.

I dont consider this issue to be simple "fiddling" either. The fact that I got a second one with the same problem ( and similar complaints on here) tells me thay have a machine improperly adjusted or out of specification( manufacturing defect). Its a quality control issue.

I am not irritated with Midsouth they responded and sent me an exchange immediately. Although I did ask that they check the fit on the replacement which they obviously didn't do. Box was sealed with tape from factory.

I will not purchase the lyman product again or recommend one to anyone.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Stock/barrel fit is generally caused by working with green wood. Its the price you pay when you subcontract the work out to foreign manufacturers. Its not right, and customers deserve better. Talk to Lyman directly about it. MidSouth will stand behind the products they ship, and make good, by sending you another gun, but they have no control on how the guns are made. All they can do is send it back to their jobber, who sends it back to Lyman.

About Sights: Front sights are TRADITIONALLY made to be taller than needed, so that all shooters can file them down to fit the way they aim OPEN SIGHTS. Adjustable sights on some models help SOMETIME, but not all the time. Long before I bought my first MLER, I was advised to take a file with me to the range when I sighted in the gun for a particular load. I did a lot of shooting off the bench rest before learning what the gun liked- ball diameter/ patch thickness, and lube. Only when I found a load combination that shot consistently well did I then turn to lowering the front sight to bring it up on the target at 50 yds. Others will zero the sights at 75 or even 100 yds. It depends on caliber, what you want to hunt, and where.

 

[adirondack46r]

I am on my second one in two weeks from Midsouth, they both have had poor alignment of the barrel with the stock channel I have to force the stock over to the lock side to get the barrel to drop into the barrel channel. The last one is better than the first one but definitely not correct.

I dont consider this issue to be simple "fiddling" either. The fact that I got a second one with the same problem ( and similar complaints on here) tells me thay have a machine improperly adjusted or out of specification( manufacturing defect). Its a quality control issue.

I am not irritated with Midsouth they responded and sent me an exchange immediately. Although I did ask that they check the fit on the replacement which they obviously didn't do. Box was sealed with tape from factory.

I will not purchase the lyman product again or recommend one to anyone.

Call Midsouth back and ask for a guy named Ted. He was good enough to go down to the warehouse and handpick me a gun with a good fit.

 

[playfarmers]

I had a Lyman Deerstalker for years and although it shot very well, the rifling was rough [chatter marks], and it was a brute to clean. I went out and got a new Lyman Trade rifle and couldn't be happier with it. The barrel needed a bit of fitting to be what I wanted, but that was no big deal. I had an Austin & Halleck Mountain rifle and ended up sending it back for replacement, and even then it needed quite a bit of work to be right. If I paid $2000+ for a custom rifle and it came like that I would be upset, but I paid $330 Canadian for my Trade rifle.

 

[ryoung14]

Your experience has been the same as mine, adirondack. Fit & finish of the Lyman GPR is well behind that of TC, IMHO. Mine went back to Dixon's for warranty service twice. First time was a variety of fit issues; second time was a lock problem. Seems to be OK now and it is a shooter; but who knows what will crop up. My TCs have required very little in the way of "fiddling" and they have a more finished look to them.

Bought a second Lyman, a GPH, on an Internet forum. It arrived with some previous owner induced problems. Aside from these issues, I will say the fit, finish and appearance of the GPH is a cut above the GPR. Seems like what you get from Lyman/Interarms is the luck of the draw.

That said, the obvious solution; that of Lyman being more demanding of its Interarms supplier; would probably translate into higher prices for the guns. Things are where they are because Lyman has decided it's what the market will bear.
Bob

 

[410-er]

I like the pre "A" series better.

 

[bucketthompson]

What is pre 'A'? My Trade serial starts with an A and my GPR doesn't. The Trade was a kit so I just thought the A designated that.
Ryan

 

[William O.]

I am very satisfied with Lyman products and have had no issues with either the trade rifle or GPR. I'd recomend them to all my friends.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I bought a Trade Rifle at Dixon's years ago. Must have thousands of rounds through it. Liked it so much that I bought my son the same model. Mine has the traditional primitive sights and his the the peep on the tang and the same front blade that it came with. They both can cut playing cards in half, cut strings and eggs at novelty shoots, etc. Are they the prettiest gun? Not by any means! Is the warranty good? You bet it is! My son's gun got knocked-over at the range, causing a crack in the stock by the lock. Dixon replaced the stock while I waited and then handed me the rifle back no-charge! And the replacement stock is better looking than the original. We re-sighted the gun in and it can cut strings!

Fit and finish isn't fancy, although ours didn't have any problems. Replaced nipples long time ago, and continue to do so due to the volume of shots fired, half of which are 370 grain Maxi-Balls. Nipples to a rifle are like film to a camera--an expendable item!

These rifles were never intended to be anything more than what they are--good shooters for folks on a budget.

Maybe it's just me, (and this certainly doesn't apply to you) but sometimes when I read some posts on this forum I think that the author or poster isn't happy unless they're complaining about something, just like the guy that hangs-out in the gun store and "holds court" on every topic that comes up, to the chagrin of the shop keeper. Then there's the guy who wants Rolex quality from a Timex.

I also think that the internet and shopping on it for mass-machined products has also helped to create a scenario where the same gun gets shipped to several customers until someone keeps it! The answer to this is to stop being CHEAP, and drive to the store and pay a few bucks more for the gun and be able to inspect it IN YOUR HANDS!

I can't be alone in my feelings about this, but I'm probably in the minority :idunno: . IMHO the best customer service is the store owner putting only stuff that looks like it's made right to begin with out on the store shelf for purchase, and sending anything questionable back to the distributor/importer!

O-K, so much for the soapbox :v: .

Dave

 

[adirondack46r]

I bought a Trade Rifle at Dixon's years ago. Must have thousands of rounds through it. Liked it so much that I bought my son the same model. Mine has the traditional primitive sights and his the the peep on the tang and the same front blade that it came with. They both can cut playing cards in half, cut strings and eggs at novelty shoots, etc. Are they the prettiest gun? Not by any means! Is the warranty good? You bet it is! My son's gun got knocked-over at the range, causing a crack in the stock by the lock. Dixon replaced the stock while I waited and then handed me the rifle back no-charge! And the replacement stock is better looking than the original. We re-sighted the gun in and it can cut strings!

Fit and finish isn't fancy, although ours didn't have any problems. Replaced nipples long time ago, and continue to do so due to the volume of shots fired, half of which are 370 grain Maxi-Balls. Nipples to a rifle are like film to a camera--an expendable item!

These rifles were never intended to be anything more than what they are--good shooters for folks on a budget.

Maybe it's just me, (and this certainly doesn't apply to you) but sometimes when I read some posts on this forum I think that the author or poster isn't happy unless they're complaining about something, just like the guy that hangs-out in the gun store and "holds court" on every topic that comes up, to the chagrin of the shop keeper. Then there's the guy who wants Rolex quality from a Timex.

I also think that the internet and shopping on it for mass-machined products has also helped to create a scenario where the same gun gets shipped to several customers until someone keeps it! The answer to this is to stop being CHEAP, and drive to the store and pay a few bucks more for the gun and be able to inspect it IN YOUR HANDS!

I can't be alone in my feelings about this, but I'm probably in the minority :idunno: . IMHO the best customer service is the store owner putting only stuff that looks like it's made right to begin with out on the store shelf for purchase, and sending anything questionable back to the distributor/importer!

O-K, so much for the soapbox :v: .

Dave

Dave, You make a lot of sense. Very good post.

46r

 

[bobman]

I've recieved two rifles both with the same problem both with factory metal preservative.

I get tired of people that make assumptions about others without knowing them. I also get tired of people that say that anyone should just, accept a obvious manufacturing defect, as a matter of course. Because the rifle is inexpensive a manufacturing defect is just that a defect and apparently many of you recieved rifles without the defect or it would not get the varying degrees of good reviews. So now I'm facing having to send it back again which is a pain in the ass and means another week atleast that I cannot use it.

Off Lymans web site " This classic muzzleloader offers such high quality features...."

I am not expecting a perfect fit and finish I am also not satisfied with having to pry the stock towards the lock to seat the barrel.

ANd lastly I have never complained about any product on a forum prior to this,and could not find one locally.

So yes please stay off your soap bow with your insinuations

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Smokin' 50 said "and this certainly doesn't apply to you"! It appears as though you just want an arguement.

 

[jbtusa]

I agree. There are grumblers who complain that the sun comes up.