So how did they clean MLs back in the day?

[DanChamberlain]

Fisher

Read about this a while back. This is how the soldiers did it and how I do it around the camp fire.

Soldiers would put a sliver of wood in the nipple and pour about a quarter cup of cold water in the bore. Blocking it with their thumb, they'd slosh it around a bit to loosen things up.

Then they'd pour it out. They'd repeat this if there was ample water. Then, they'd run a soapy cloth patch up and down several times to cut the crud.

Then, they'd rinse. For the rinse, I use cold water. Again, about a quarter cup depending on bore size. Slosh things around and pour, repeat.

Finally, I pour a barrel full of boiling water in the bore and let it sit. Let the barrel metal get really hot. May take two barrel's full.

Once that barrel is too hot to touch, I unplug that nipple and force a patched rod through it super hard, squirting a jet through that nipple channel. Then I remove the nipple and dry everything up with dry patches.

One final thing I do that I've not read about. I take a brass patch jag, small enough to fall into the chamber recess. I put it in the fire until it's red hot and using a tong I drop it down the bore and into the powder chamber. It does a really good job of making that powder chamber totally dry! Once it has cooled off a bit, I tip the barrel and out it drops.

Lube things up and it's done.

Don't need to dismount the barrel. Don't need to find a bucket. No rust in my guns. Don't ever use a chamber scraper and my chambers are clean and shiny. I pulled the breech of my old Lyman the other day that has never seen a chamber scraper and the chamber seems like it's in nearly new condition!

Total cleaning time about 20 leisurely minutes chatting and cleaning.

Dan

 

[pichou]

Directions for Cleaning the Rifled Musket:

Directions for Cleaning Rifle Muskets.

1st. Place the Musket at full cock.

2nd. Pour about a quarter of a pint of clean water into the barrel; in doing this hold the Musket in the left hand, in a slanting direction, keeping the muzzle a little below the elbow of the arm with the barrel downwards to prevent any spilt water running between the Barrel and the stock.

3rd. Put a piece of rag or tow into the tag and surround it with the same, put it into the barrel immediately the water is poured in, and rub it well up and down, forcing the water out of the barrel through the nipple vent, which repeat once.

4th. Wipe the barrel well out with rag or tow until quite clean and dry, and then with an oiled or greased rag.

Note.””By this mode of cleaning, it is expected there will be little liability of the barrels becoming rusted, and seldom any necessity for removing the barrel from its stock, which is always objectionable, even with Muskets fitted with the break off.

Wipe out the oil or grease with a clean rag just before firing.

A companion to the new rifle musket, 1855.
http://books.google.com/books?id=6U4BAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA47&dq=cleaning+a+musket&as_brr=1

 

[Horace]

One major difference is that we are using steel barrels and until about the time of the War of Northern Aggression most barrels were iron. They would rust differently and certainly their old barrels would need freshnen up pretty often until it was too thin.

 

[DanChamberlain]

However, after the beginning of the "War of Southern Treason," barrels still rusted without proper care.

Dan

 

[pichou]

War of Southern Treason

War of Northern Aggression

:rotf:

Everybody knows...

In the North, the Civil War is History,

In the South, the Civil War is Politics.

:rotf:

 

[brubincam]

-----don't think I want to blow down a barrel with urine or myine in it-----

 

[putodebabylon]

Some great responses, thanks guys. Here's some stuff I turned up:

This is from Eben Brown:

Having a few years experience in muzzleloader hunting, I've arrived at some common sense cleaning methods that have made my muzzleloader rifle far more accurate and enjoyable to shoot. Its a thoughtful, reasoned approach...
First of all, this idea that you have to soak your rifle in a tub full of hot soapy water after every shooting session is ridiculous. The original muzzleloader Frontiersmen didn't have hot tubs much less soap with them on their forages through the wilderness... Yet their rifles had to function reliably and shoot accurately... Their lives depended on it.
Second, the idea of "Seasoning" a muzzleloader barrel makes a lot of sense and perhaps explains why the original frontiersmen didn't need hot soapy tubs. The idea is that natural muzzleloader lubricants like Thompson Center Arms "Borebutter" will actually season the bore very much the same way bacon fat cooks into a cast iron frying pan... Creating a naturally protected, non-stick surface.
And finally, the common belief that you can shoot 3-5 accurate muzzleloader shots between cleanings is absurd. You can't hardly get a second and third bullet fully seated down a fouled barrel... Much less shoot with accuracy. A muzzleloader barrel simply MUST be swabbed (seasoned) between shots to remove hard caked fouling. But with seasoning... Oh, man... You can easily get 25 to 100+ accurate shots before you have to clean your rifle

Found this on another forum:

I recently acquired a re-print of John R. Chapman's "Instruction to Young Marksmen.....The Improved American Rifle" published in 1848. I was struck by this passage on pg94:

"I have found that after a day's practice, the best plan is to put a tablespoon of bear's oil or lamp oil into the barrel of the rifle, having previously stopped up the vent and cone, and let it remain there till you used the rifle again. The oil saturates and loosens the residuum in the breech and communications, so that the greater part of it can be forced out with a wiping rag and a small quantity of powder, placed in the cone seat and fired off. By this method the weapon is kept tolerably clean for several day's practice, and there is no possibility of the interior of the barrel becoming rusty, as is too often the case when water is used for cleaning out by incompetent and careless persons. However, when a rifle becomes so foul as to require cleaning out with water, use it "boiling hot," and be as quick about the operation as possible, and don't forget to work a quantity of oil through the barrel with a dry clean rag. After using a rifle, however slightly, always remember to clean and rub the "outside" of the barrel and trimmings perfectly dry, and then apply a moderate coat of good bear's oil or lamp oil, either of which is better than Florence olive oil. Some people are very particular about what kind of oil they use in the favorite rifles, but good clean bear's oil or best fish oil is good enough and more "comeatable" than squirrel, coon, or deer's leg oil."

:hatsoff:

 

[DanChamberlain]

I actually have a jar of bear "oil" in my fridge. I'm gonna have to give it a try.

Dan

 

[paulvallandigham]

A word of caution. Barrels back then were made of cast iron or wrought iron, not Steel. Steel barrels did not come into prominence until several years later.

You can " Season " cast iron, just like we can still Season " Cast Iron skillets, and frying pans", today. You don't Season STEEL, however.

As nice as this text is, it has no place in cleaning a modern steel barrel. Now, if you happen to be shooting an original rifle, from the iron age of barrel making, give these techniques a try. There are such guns around, still, and some are still being shot. My brother has a barrel made originally in about 1800, that he is still shooting on a rifle he had restored. :thumbsup:

 

[tecum-tha]

Paul, I hardly can wait to shoot my new "old" jaeger with a barrel from the 1740ies. When I got the gun, there was already a quite big ventliner installed and it was worn out. So I guess this barrel was shot a lot. The gunbuilder who rebuilds it for me said the barrel is fine....he,he, .70 cal 25.5" barrel
:grin:

 

[paulvallandigham]

I am all in favor of using the old guns, but I also am concerned about wearing them out. The old Iron barrels just don't stand up to constant range use, and thousands of rounds fired a year, which some people do.

My brother, in fact, is considering having his old barrel lined with a steel barrel liner, to preserve what is left of the old barrel. The breechplug and block was hand made by someone who used this old Flint barrel in making a LH percussion rifle in the 1870s or 1880s. Corrosion damaged much of the " patent" breech, and he had to do major work on it recently. He lined a Springfield Trapdoor that our father owned, and you cannot see the seam. The ROT is changed to 1:16, and the rifling is now 6 groove. The gun now shoots better than it ever did for Dad.

YOu might want to consider that for this new, " Old " Gun with that old a barrel. I would hate to see the gun fail at this stage of its life. :hmm: :shocked2: My concern is that the old iron may just be worked hardened or crystalized.

 

[texcl]

My grandmother and family pretty much lived like pioneers and pretty much were. When she was a little girl she moved to South Texas because the land was cheaper and they were being sort of pushed out of the area (her great grand father had won thousands of acres in the Texas revolution but we lost most of it after the civil war to carpet baggers, and it was just down hill from there)South Texas was still like the old west, no running water and of course no electricity, anyway, I use to spend the summers with her and one year I brought my 1st muzzleloader with me. After going outand shooting at some hogs, she found me behind the house with a garden hose cleaning my rifle. She proceeded to ask me why I was using water n this rife and not solvent like my others, and I told her it was because muzzleloaders had to be cleaned with water 1st. She then told me that her brothers had a rifle like mine and she did remember them cleaning it with water, if I remember right she eluded to the fact it was warm water out of a pot poured down the barrel, she also told me that she used to watch them cast r/b's. She had alot of first hand experiences stored up in her like how to make lye soap ect... just wish I cold have gotten it all out of her before she died, on a side note she was the person who taught me how to shoot on the wing, she was good with a shotgun and told me she lived on ducks and geese in the winters when she was young, she had a great distain for waterfowl, and she'd always yell at me, "get that nasty thing out of my kitchen!" every time I shot a goose. But she'd always cook it for me in the end and make it edible, she just liked to make a point I guess.

 

[tecum-tha]

Paul, the gunsmith rebuilding it is very experienced with ML guns. The barrel is also very thick and according to the gunsmith in real good condition. He proof fired the barrel,too,before he restarted building it. He builds ML guns for 46 years full-time. So I think he would have told me about safety concerns before starting to rebuild it. Another thing is that this rifle will not become my range rifle,I have other toys for that, but I will use it mainly for hunting. After having sighted it in, I guess it will see less than 50 rounds per year. Another possibilty is always to get it x-rayed to check the barrel out.
If I like it so much that I consider it my main gun, I will do that.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I am glad to hear this. I was concerned when you mentioned the caliber of the gun:--.70! Some people would be inclined to load that pretty heavy, and those old iron barrels might just not be up to that task any more. I hope it works out for you. :thumbsup:

I only hope that if I live to be half the age of that barrel, that folks will be kind to me, too. :hatsoff:

 

[tecum-tha]

I have a few pics of the gunbuilding process, take a look here: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/gallery/index.php?action=displaycat&catid=148
Have fun!

 

[paulvallandigham]

Nice stock and parts. I would still be concerned about that old an iron barrel, and an equally old iron breechplug. Not much safety margin in either of them. At the very least, I would have them X-rayed for cracks. And, I would have a new steel breechplug made to at least protect the shooter should the load be too much for the barrel. He might lose an arm, but maybe not an eye, or his life.

1740 metallurgy was a wish and a hope. They had no controls on quality of the iron. In Europe and Asia, blacksmiths were still experimenting with different mixes of carbon impregnated irons to make a stronger metal. Swords makers and knife makers had perfected "Damascus steel", but it was still being experimented with in gun barrels.

Barrels were made thicker, and heavier, to overcome minor flaws in the iron so that the barrels could be used with light loads. But, those flaws are still there. And now the iron is almost 270 years old.

In the early years of this country, a gunship on the Potomac had an iron cannon blow up, killing several politicians, and foreign dignitaries. Those cannon barrels were made of much better quality iron, yet such an incident still occurred. The same happened on battlefield right through the Civil War.

 

[Dphar]

As I'm dragging out my bucket of hot soapy water, I think,

"You can't tell me that the mountain men, common folk, and soldiers in the 18th and 19th century cleaned their guns this way in the field."

So how did they do it? Any sources for old books and articles explaining methods?

Depends.
If they were out in the woods hunting in Colonial Virginia or PA they likely loaded right away. Just in case someone heard the shot who was looking for someone to kill.
MAYBE they would run a rag (tow actually) with lard on it up and down a few times to clean it up some. Might be all it got for some time.
Might clean it back at the cabin/camp if they felt secure enough. Having the Shawnee arrive while your rifle is wet from washing it would not be good.
So they recut the barrels pretty often.
Other than this water works just like today.
Dan

 

[tecum-tha]

Well, I think that barrel was fine for the last 260 years. I don`t think those guys back then shot very light loads. I plan to shoot about 75grain 3F swiss out of it and had it proof fired with 150+gr 3F swiss. I don`t think that is an overall heavy load,just medium. I check if I can find someone in the US who can X-ray the barrel. Back in the 1740ies it took most guys 10-15 years to become a master gunsmith. The regulation to become a master were very strict. And they produced quality products,just like japanese swordsmith did for centuries. If they did not, they would loose their life pretty quick. If you aquire a signed barrel and it is in good condition, there shouldn`t be any problems.
I think it is more likely to have an accident with an india made gun, than with this barrel :surrender:

 

[greyghost]

Cowpoke, I, like you, have no documentation, however, I live in and was raised here in the desert all of my 64 years and I know how precious that water is. I think sometimes they did NOT have water to clean with and barely enough to drink between water sources. Probably didn't shoot that often and just let them go til they got to the next water source. :thumbsup:

 

[Dphar]

:hmm:

I would think the red hot rod would make the lugs fall off :shocked2:

Too bad we can't ask Edie for clarification. :haha:

Any lugs were likely brazed or silver soldered.
The front sight and bayonet lug would not be soft soldered.
Dan