The Search for a Vintage Cornbread

[Cvkotvkse]

What the heck is a "first wave longhunter" pray tell?

Especially given the parameters @Loyalist Dave has layer out for who he is talking about.

It has to do with stages of settlement in a given area... Boone, for instance, was an early settler on the Yadkin in colonial NC, while spending months as a longhunter further west in the Kain-tuck-ee.... Eventually, he led settlers into that area (losing his oldest son James in the process,) and repeated the settlement process there. (My impression is that he preferred the combined existence of the first two, and would get uncomfortable when he spent too long in the third, rresulting in a move further west.
Each type of existence had its own level of access to supplies, and likely therefore "culinary traditions..."
The same holds true, on a condensed level, even today, wirh different meals served by western outfitters, depending on whether you are at base camp, fly camp, or spending 2-3 nights out subsisting on what's in your and your guide's packs trailing the bear/sheep/goat, etc., of a lifetime.

 

[Bark-eater]

Sounds like some one needs to get a Junior Experimenters Kit....

 

[Brokennock]

It has to do with stages of settlement in a given area... Boone, for instance, was an early settler on the Yadkin in colonial NC, while spending months as a longhunter further west in the Kain-tuck-ee.... Eventually, he led settlers into that area (losing his oldest son James in the process,) and repeated the settlement process there. (My impression is that he preferred the combined existence of the first two, and would get uncomfortable when he spent too long in the third, rresulting in a move further west.
Each type of existence had its own level of access to supplies, and likely therefore "culinary traditions..."
The same holds true, on a condensed level, even today, wirh different meals served by western outfitters, depending on whether you are at base camp, fly camp, or spending 2-3 nights out subsisting on what's in your and your guide's packs trailing the bear/sheep/goat, etc., of a lifetime.

Then we aren't talking about "longhunters" are we.

"Longhunter" must be the most overused, and missused,, term in this hobby.



Edit: I forgot over-, and mis-, represented

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Part of this was what does one do when one is not previously trained. So when a person arrived from Europe and was indentured, this would've been by someone that could afford to indenture them. That doesn't automatically mean the new arrival was exposed to maize meal, nor would it mean that they were exposed to it during their indenture. Perhaps the same could be said of potatoes..., that's for another time and another thread.

In Southern areas, maize exposure was more likely, because of the presence of slaves as it was a very inexpensive food crop, PLUS there was a higher likelihood of having seen hominy..., but moving farther North, this diminishes. We tend to assume that all American colonists were well versed in the use of maize, but that may not be correct. There are Germanic, Scottish, and Dutch folks coming over as well as British, and they brought along their cultural knowledge, which tended to be quite different than the English speakers.

British soldiers for example, are documented during the AWI as laughing at Continental Soldiers captured and found to only have hog fodder (maize) in their haversack. Virginian Continental soldiers are documented as looking at rice and okra as hog fodder, YET soldiers from the Carolinas were well versed in rice and okra. To the Virginians the rice and okra were not human foods, so keeping that in mind, I didn't want to take it as given that if folks had dried corn they'd know what to do with it.

Thus it was quite possible that civilians would have the same preconception about maize, OR if the person headed out to the frontier was a British deserter, or a captured German soldier being housed on the frontier (Germans captured at Trenton were housed as far away as Staunton VA) they would have little if any knowledge of what to do with maize. I have experience with modern versions of cornbread, but plain meal, or nixtamalized flour (masa), I have barely a hint. I've never made tortillas, and was quite surprised at how fast the masa turned into a batter, for example.

So it looks like the hoecake was probably the first form, and the frontier form of a cornbread.

LD

 

[Coot]

Cornmeal (ground or pounded dry corn), some salt & just enough water to make into a patty (not a batter). Cook on a piece of sheet metal (a hoe blade is one option) over a low fire. Very filling. Tasty - not particularly great but not bad either. Did I mention filling ......

Eggs, butter, molasses, etc. all relate to some form of settlement.

 

[nhmoose]

The best corn I have found for making flour or meal, is Painted Mountain Indian corn, developed by buckskinner Dave Christinsen (sp) down in Big Timber. It is a 100 day corn, usually bearing one ear per stock in this area. Two ears is rare. Size of ears seem to vary, up to around 9" in good conditions.
If growing for heirloom, it MUST be kept very far from any other corn variety. All corn will easily cross breed.

https://www.smartgardener.com/plants/1097-corn-painted-mountain/overview

My son has grown this in a field 5 miles or more away from any other gardens. Keeps winning the blue ribbon at a couple of fairs in NH. Sells manydecoration door hangers from it. Also it will pop somewhat.

 

[Bark-eater]

I found this stuff at a Redners supermarket. Its tasty and you eat can it right out of the bag.

 

[Brokennock]

I found this stuff at a Redners supermarket. Its tasty and you eat it right out of the bag.


View attachment 303479View attachment 303480View attachment 303481

Interesting. I am going to look for that, but, keep in mind, the corn of the time, especially the Indian corn used for partying and trail food, was not "sweet corn." It was not the corn most people enjoy today. It was higher in protein and lower in sugar.

 

[Bark-eater]

Well its tasty enough that I'm going to have to do a self intervention before I eat the whole bag. It wont be a hardship to bring some of this stuff on non period endeavors.

 

[Cvkotvkse]

Part of this was what does one do when one is not previously trained. So when a person arrived from Europe and was indentured, this would've been by someone that could afford to indenture them. That doesn't automatically mean the new arrival was exposed to maize meal, nor would it mean that they were exposed to it during their indenture. Perhaps the same could be said of potatoes..., that's for another time and another thread.

In Southern areas, maize exposure was more likely, because of the presence of slaves as it was a very inexpensive food crop, PLUS there was a higher likelihood of having seen hominy..., but moving farther North, this diminishes. We tend to assume that all American colonists were well versed in the use of maize, but that may not be correct. There are Germanic, Scottish, and Dutch folks coming over as well as British, and they brought along their cultural knowledge, which tended to be quite different than the English speakers.

British soldiers for example, are documented during the AWI as laughing at Continental Soldiers captured and found to only have hog fodder (maize) in their haversack. Virginian Continental soldiers are documented as looking at rice and okra as hog fodder, YET soldiers from the Carolinas were well versed in rice and okra. To the Virginians the rice and okra were not human foods, so keeping that in mind, I didn't want to take it as given that if folks had dried corn they'd know what to do with it.

Thus it was quite possible that civilians would have the same preconception about maize, OR if the person headed out to the frontier was a British deserter, or a captured German soldier being housed on the frontier (Germans captured at Trenton were housed as far away as Staunton VA) they would have little if any knowledge of what to do with maize. I have experience with modern versions of cornbread, but plain meal, or nixtamalized flour (masa), I have barely a hint. I've never made tortillas, and was quite surprised at how fast the masa turned into a batter, for example.

So it looks like the hoecake was probably the first form, and the frontier form of a cornbread.

Very interesting, Dave , and in keeping with what I have learned from members of some of the old Colonial and early Federalist-period families of tbe Carolinas, esp. SOUTH CAROLINA.
This gentleman, who purchased the Peden rifle I had discussed on this forum last year. He immediately identified the floral carvings on it as rice stalks, stating that rice had been a sign of prosperity there. It turns out to be a very common motif in carvings on firearms, on furniture, even mantel pieces, as it was a sign of wealth and prosperity, and rice is served in almost all South Carolina meals.
So,.... "One man's junk is another man's treasure..."
even if the wealthy were so British that Cornwallis mistakenly anticipated that they would provide the necessary Loyalist "oomph" to break the stagnation and set the stage for a British victory.

 

[waksupi]

Cornmeal (ground or pounded dry corn), some salt & just enough water to make into a patty (not a batter). Cook on a piece of sheet metal (a hoe blade is one option) over a low fire. Very filling. Tasty - not particularly great but not bad either. Did I mention filling ......

Eggs, butter, molasses, etc. all relate to some form of settlement.

There were plenty duck, goose, swan, crane, etc. eggs to be had for part of the year.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

There were plenty duck, goose, swan, crane, etc. eggs to be had for part of the year.

Well unless you kept those birds, there was a very limited window when those eggs would've been for use as a food item without some sort of growing embryo, eh?

And I've found out that one only needs water and the grain meal and some time and a hot rock.

LD

 

[waksupi]

Well unless you kept those birds, there was a very limited window when those eggs would've been for use as a food item without some sort of growing embryo, eh?

And I've found out that one only needs water and the grain meal and some time and a hot rock.

LD

You assume they wouldn't eat an embryo! Baulut ring a bell? ;o)

 

[Loyalist Dave]

You assume they wouldn't eat an embryo! Baulut ring a bell? ;o)

No I know that one cannot use the egg for baking when the embryo is formed....

LD

 

[Nav]

Sounds like some one needs to get a Junior Experimenters Kit....

I used to use one of those (with a hammer drill instead of a crank) for my grain bill. But now I have a Chinesium upright mill that will do 7lbs of corn in about two minutes.