shdwlkr
40 Cal.
No one has yet answered the real question here. If Thompson Center got the breech plug issue so wrong why has there been no law suit filed, recall notice or safety warning about this dangerous issue?
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Seneca Patent Breech
- Thread starter Eddie Southgate
- Start date
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I guess because none ever let go meaning there was no case. I have worked on a lot of t.c. rifles. never seen any of the problems some are talking about here. the only real thread problems I ever saw was on old originals. some only had 1 1/2 to 2 turns to lock up. we always made the plug longer and tapped the barrel deeper.
I worked with bob hoyt for a year about 85.
I worked with bob hoyt for a year about 85.
shdwlkr
40 Cal.
bob
thank you
I can see if replacing a breech plug things can get confusing and sometimes difficult, but unsafe if done by a smith or factory trained individual that knows how to do that task I can not see how it would pass inspection or test firing.
thank you
I can see if replacing a breech plug things can get confusing and sometimes difficult, but unsafe if done by a smith or factory trained individual that knows how to do that task I can not see how it would pass inspection or test firing.
I was going to let this go but, I just cannot. I keep getting shouted down by folks who apparently don’t understand what I am trying to say. It is quite frustrating.
Why do folks think TC’s were test fired, inspected and proofed?? Anyone have any evidence of that actually being done? In the USA BP guns are not required to be proofed. How can you inspect for improper breech plug fitting?
I measured the Seneca that is on my bench right now. I am not speculating. The end of the breech plug is 0.017" short of the mating shoulder on the interior of the barrel. That leaves a gap.
The plug is 11/16" x 20 thread (0.6875") diameter
The barrel is threaded 13/16 (0.8125") across the flats
That leaves a wall thickness of only 1/16" in the space in front of the breech plug.
The barrel wall thickness IS ONLY 1/16"!! That is unsafe... Sorry it just is, please don’t try to say it is just fine, it is not.
My turn to speculate. Maybe few have bothered to look at this. Maybe most who have don’t understand what they are looking at. Maybe it is just coincidence that the Seneca line at TC burned down and all records were lost. Maybe people have sued over accidents but gag orders were part of the settlement? Now that TC is gone we’ll never know.
I would strongly encourage the owner of one of these rifles to have in inspected by a competent gunsmith.
Why do folks think TC’s were test fired, inspected and proofed?? Anyone have any evidence of that actually being done? In the USA BP guns are not required to be proofed. How can you inspect for improper breech plug fitting?
I measured the Seneca that is on my bench right now. I am not speculating. The end of the breech plug is 0.017" short of the mating shoulder on the interior of the barrel. That leaves a gap.
The plug is 11/16" x 20 thread (0.6875") diameter
The barrel is threaded 13/16 (0.8125") across the flats
That leaves a wall thickness of only 1/16" in the space in front of the breech plug.
The barrel wall thickness IS ONLY 1/16"!! That is unsafe... Sorry it just is, please don’t try to say it is just fine, it is not.
My turn to speculate. Maybe few have bothered to look at this. Maybe most who have don’t understand what they are looking at. Maybe it is just coincidence that the Seneca line at TC burned down and all records were lost. Maybe people have sued over accidents but gag orders were part of the settlement? Now that TC is gone we’ll never know.
I would strongly encourage the owner of one of these rifles to have in inspected by a competent gunsmith.
11/16-20 thread?
Interesting.
Track of the Wolf only shows a 9/16-18 and a 5/8-18 thread for the "Thompson Center Seneca, Patriot, Cherokee style percussion hooked breech plug, for 13/16" barrel...".
The 5/8-18 thread with that barrel would leave a wall thickness of .0938.
This is considerably less than the usual thicknesses of muzzleloading barrels but it is considerably better than the 1/16" thickness you mention.
Interesting.
Track of the Wolf only shows a 9/16-18 and a 5/8-18 thread for the "Thompson Center Seneca, Patriot, Cherokee style percussion hooked breech plug, for 13/16" barrel...".
The 5/8-18 thread with that barrel would leave a wall thickness of .0938.
This is considerably less than the usual thicknesses of muzzleloading barrels but it is considerably better than the 1/16" thickness you mention.
Skychief
69 Cal.
Sorry to read this. One of my favorites is a Seneca 45. :slap:
Seems there's enough difference of opinion regarding it being a safe or unsafe condition. I can't say, but, plan to follow this.
That said, I've not heard nor read of Senecas/Cherokees blowing.
Still.
Best regards, Skychief
Seems there's enough difference of opinion regarding it being a safe or unsafe condition. I can't say, but, plan to follow this.
That said, I've not heard nor read of Senecas/Cherokees blowing.
Still.
Best regards, Skychief
Prairieofthedog
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2011
- Messages
- 567
- Reaction score
- 138
DO NOT SHOOT YOUR SENECAS OR CHEROKEES THEY ARE UNSAFE!Please send them to me to dispose of!The .32 and .36's are especially dangerous.Any other TC bombs you have feel free to send to me.Especially dangerous Models are the .58 Big Boars,Cougars,Pennsylvania Hunters.I will even pay shipping to me.PM for details.
:grin:
:grin:
If the gun is of poor design and a safety hazard, wouldn't we have heard something by now of things(mishaps) that have happened? The gun has been out of production for some time and been around quite awhile.
Mooman76 said:
Early TCs of all models had some serious quality control problems. And, yes, we did hear about them. In the 70s and 80s the Buckskin Report magazine railed mightly about these defects. The magazine lost legal battles (big money vs. almost no money) and went out of business. Those early rifles are now either wall hangers, repaired or blowed up. Mine (a Seneca and a 'hawken') are rebarreled properly and after 40+ years of use are still winners.
Maybe your right about the 11/16 inch thread but it doesn't make sense to me.
The Seneca only came in .36 and .45 caliber.
The 9/16-18 UNF thread has a minor diameter of around .512 making it an excellent choice for a .36 caliber bore.
The 5/8-18 UNF thread has a minor diameter of around .574, again making it an excellent choice for a .45 caliber bore.
The 11/16-20 UN has a minor diameter of .639 making it almost 3/16" larger than a .45 caliber bore.
As a side note, Green Mountain's 13/16" octagon barrels are made with a 9/16-18 UNF thread in their .36 caliber barrels.
GM uses a 5/8-18 UNF thread in their 13/16" octagon .45 caliber barrels.
Long story short, I don't think your 11/16" diameter thread is the size TC used in the Seneca barrels.
The Seneca only came in .36 and .45 caliber.
The 9/16-18 UNF thread has a minor diameter of around .512 making it an excellent choice for a .36 caliber bore.
The 5/8-18 UNF thread has a minor diameter of around .574, again making it an excellent choice for a .45 caliber bore.
The 11/16-20 UN has a minor diameter of .639 making it almost 3/16" larger than a .45 caliber bore.
As a side note, Green Mountain's 13/16" octagon barrels are made with a 9/16-18 UNF thread in their .36 caliber barrels.
GM uses a 5/8-18 UNF thread in their 13/16" octagon .45 caliber barrels.
Long story short, I don't think your 11/16" diameter thread is the size TC used in the Seneca barrels.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/THOMPSON-CE...HEROKEE-/321398009342?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276
THOMPSON CENTER BREECH & TANG, SENECA, PATRIOT OR CHEROKEE See original listing
THOMPSON-CENTER-BREECH-amp-TANG-SENECA-PATRIOT-OR-CHEROKEE
Item Sold
Item condition:
--not specified
Ended:
May 11, 2014 , 4:44PM
Winning bid:
US $47.99
[ 7 bids ]
Shipping:
$6.00 Economy Shipping
Item location:
Auburn, Michigan, United States
Seller:
auburnlil (1178 )
| Seller's other items
Used T/C breech plug and nipple, 11/16" x 20 threads and tang, Both are blued.
Above is a link to an old EBAY ad for one. Note the description for the threads.
Oh jeeze I don't knowwhey the link does nto work. I copied the description.
....I'm sure
S
THOMPSON CENTER BREECH & TANG, SENECA, PATRIOT OR CHEROKEE See original listing
THOMPSON-CENTER-BREECH-amp-TANG-SENECA-PATRIOT-OR-CHEROKEE
Item Sold
Item condition:
--not specified
Ended:
May 11, 2014 , 4:44PM
Winning bid:
US $47.99
[ 7 bids ]
Shipping:
$6.00 Economy Shipping
Item location:
Auburn, Michigan, United States
Seller:
auburnlil (1178 )
| Seller's other items
Used T/C breech plug and nipple, 11/16" x 20 threads and tang, Both are blued.
Above is a link to an old EBAY ad for one. Note the description for the threads.
Oh jeeze I don't knowwhey the link does nto work. I copied the description.
....I'm sure
S
Last edited by a moderator:
AS if an Ebay seller got the size right.
Skychief
69 Cal.
So, is my early (4 digit serial numbered) Seneca prone to blowing or not? :idunno:
It's early enough that the barrel is not marked 'Seneca'.
Best regards, Skychief
It's early enough that the barrel is not marked 'Seneca'.
Best regards, Skychief
Skychief said:
The best quick check is to simply put an oiled patch down the bore all the way. If it catches and hangs up when you try to extract that is telling you there is a real problem. If it comes out smoothly you are probably alright. A good bore light can also reveal some hidden devils.
don hepler
58 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
- Messages
- 2,260
- Reaction score
- 10
What caliber is your Seneca? I have a .36 Seneca and only use 30-35 grains of powder, behind a tiny round ball. Not much pressure there, I wouldn't imagine.
Probably have similar situations, with large bore rifles. Powder charges are a lot larger.
I've been shooting .36 Seneca, and 45 Patriot, for years, but only load light loads. The reason for light loads, is to protect the stock. They had a tendency to split.
Probably have similar situations, with large bore rifles. Powder charges are a lot larger.
I've been shooting .36 Seneca, and 45 Patriot, for years, but only load light loads. The reason for light loads, is to protect the stock. They had a tendency to split.
