• Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

Percussion to flint swap?

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Amikee

45 Cal.
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
528
Reaction score
1
Hello gentlemen

As you may know I recently acquired a TVM Tennessee style rifle. It has a percussion lock that I'm thinking of changing to flint lock. Current one is of course the incorrect small Siler so small Siler in flint will fit just fine.
Now, if I was to do this swap by myself.....

Question nr1
Since I have a drum, how do you remove it?

Q2
What are the chances that the hole from drum will fit vent liner? Am I supposed to drill it at all if I went with no liner?
How do I find the right one? Just trying a bunch?

Q3
What are the chances that this hole will match the pan?

Q4
Could the same holding screws holes be used?

Q5
Anyone has both to compare?

If you this those are the questions indicating that I should leave it to professionals, just tell me straight. I don't want to mess it up.

Michael
 
And one more. Since my barrel 7/8, what size vent liner should be used?
 
Have you called TVM to ask them?

I doubt the vent liner will have the same thread size as the drum, or the hole will line up perfectly for the different lock.

With the prices of used guns these days, a cheaper option might be to just buy a whole different rifle. That way you'll have 2.
 
Matt said it'll be 250.00 with lock BUT what's going to eat me is shipping. $80.00 on top for shipping both ways and that brings it to 330.00.
 
Let's not overreact now guys. Most drums are threaded to match available vent liners so just this very thing can be done.

Provided TVM did their part right, changing this gun to flint shouldn't be hard at all. By right I mean that they lined up the lock and drum properly when installing them.

If that's the case, it's almost as simple as removing the lock, unscrewing the drum, threading in a vent liner with the same pitch threads and installing the flintlock....same holes can be used, though you have to drill and tap 'em.

Building a flint gun and trying to convert to percussion is not often this straight forward.

TVM's price of $250 is more than fair if they go to all the trouble to ensure there is no liner intruding into the barrel, etc. Enjoy, J.D.
 
I wouldn't worry too much about the vent lining up exactly, vent liners are relatively simple to make and you can always drill it a little off center to line up...

You might even want to just do a tapered touch hole, going from 1/8 on the outside to 1/16 on the inside...This way, you just plug the hole from the drum and drill a touch hole...

Jack Brooks had an article on making this tool in the May Muzzle Blasts...
 
You mean without the liner? Would that work you think? What about the old thread, would that get in the way of the flame? If the pan would ended up right ender hole, that'll be great but otherwise.....
 
If your gun is using an unmodified percussion small Siler lock and a standard drum....which is a good bet that it is....if you remove the lock and drum and replace it with a liner of the same thread pitch and a small Siler flintlock, the flash hole is going to line up.

The percussion and flint versions of the Siler, large and small, are designed to be interchangable. Ther has been some small variation over time, but yours looks rather recent.

Enjoy, j.D.
 
Now that's some good news. Is there a way of checking the size for liner? I'm guessing it'll be 1/4 as the barrel is 7/8.
But what about the threading? Is this something universal or should I get few and try them?
 
What is the correct way of removing the drum? I'm assuming that catching it with pliers and turning is not desirable.
 
See those flat sides on the end of the Drum?

They're there for a wrench or cresent wrench.

Take the lock out, It's preferable to remove the barrel but you might have trouble with those pins.

Clamp the barrel in a padded vise, make a witness mark on the bottom of the drum/barrel, and turn the drum out, Left loosey/righty tighty.

Face it Mike, your better off sending it out to have the swap done.
If your bound and determined to have a Flint lock rifle, why did you buy this one?
Keep this one as it is an shoot it, or sell it and get what you want.

If you want one that your can change out from Perc to Flint then this might be the rifle for ya.
But I'm kinda pragmatic about things, no disrespect intended but if you have to ask how to get a drum out, doing the change over yourself might be a significant challenge.

p.s. just hit the "Add Post" button once and wait for the page to change, it can take several seconds for the servers to load the page.
Many of us are experiencing that delay.
 
To remove the drum, do as was suggested and use the wrench flats if they exist.

If the drum doesn't have wrench flats on it, install a nipple in the drum.
Place an adjustable wrench (Crescent wrench) on the drum from the bottom of the barrel and tighten the jaws until they touch the drums outside diameter.
Align the jaws of the wrench and rotate it counterclockwise. One jaw will hit the nipple causing the entire drum to unscrew.

The flats on your 7/8" barrel are .362 wide.
That will allow the builder to use either the 1/4" or the 5/16 inch thread size for the drum.

IMO, a good builder would use the 5/16" size for the additional strength.
The threads will not be the 32 pitch threads used by the White Lightning and if the builder used the 5/16" threads there is not enough flat to rethread it to the 3/8 thread size so forget those liners.

The vent hole will line up good enough for a flintlock. They do not have to be located exactly in the theoretically correct place to work very nicely.

Yes you can use the existing lock screws but you are going to have to transfer their location to the new lock. You do this by installing the new lock and then using the existing (oversize) holes thru the stock to guide a drill that just clears the holes thru the wood.


With the drill in the stock and the lock installed, use an electric hand drill to lightly rotate the drill bit while it is in the stock screw hole, while pushing it against the new lock.
You want to create a very noticeable mark but you do not want to actually drill the hole into the lock.

With the hole locations on the lockplate established, use the correct tap drill to actually drill the holes thru the lockplate.

Some folks will advise doing this tap drill hole drilling thru the stock holes and if the best equipment you have is a hand drill that can help to keep the bit lined up but be advised, using the stocks existing holes can cause a slight mislocation of the newly drilled holes.

While I'm on a roll here, when you start to thread the holes it's a good idea to have the new lock installed in the stock and run the tap thru the bolt holes in the wood.
That will automatically align the tap.

The catch here is you do not want to fully tap the holes while the lock is installed in the stock. You only want to turn the tap into the locks holes about 1 1/2 to 2 turns. Then remove the tap. Also, remove the lock from the stock.

Tapping requires the use of a special threading oil to keep the tap from breaking. This rather stinky oil has sulfur added to prevent the tap from welding itself to the steel as the threads are being formed.
Thread cutting oil is available at almost any hardware store and it's cheap. Don't skimp and try to use regular motor oil. If you do, you will break the tap.

To start the threading, with the lock removed from the stock, apply the cutting oil to the tap and to the hole.

Gently turn the tap into the partial threads you started a moment ago allowing the partial threads to guide the tap. When it starts to resist after going in 1 1/2 to 2 turns use the tap driver to turn the tap into the hole.
Taps are very hard and very brittle. If you try to force it to go where it doesn't want to go it will break.

When tapping you must stop every turn to turn and a half and back out the tap at least 1/2 of a full turn. This will break the chips that have been formed.
After backing the tap out 1/2 turn, run it in until you feel resistance. Then apply a little more torque to run the tap in another turn to turn and a half. Then repeat the backing it out.
Keep this up until the tap screws easily completely thru the lockplate.

If you allow the tap to go where it wants to go and you apply just enough pressure to turn it in and you back it out to break the chips you will soon have a correctly hole so if the lock has two lockscrews repeat this on the other hole.

You will need to shorten your new vent liner. I've posted several times how to do this but it involves using a hex nut, a pair of locking pliers and a flat file.

Have fun.
 
Necchi, I just couldn't walk by this rifle and pass it. Too good of a deal.

Zonie. This is some great information. Really appreciate this. I think I'll give it a try. I know the lock would fit fine. My concern is touch hole vent liner now to keep it in place.
 
Amikee said:
My concern is touch hole vent liner now to keep it in place.

Could you please rephrase this? Not clear what you mean. Are you still worried the hole in the vent liner won't line up with the new lock or something else? Enjoy, J.D.
 
Yes, lining up is my concern. I think I'll take the advice from here and just send it to Matt Avance. There is too many things I've never done. I'll leave it to professionals. I have another one, much cheaper gun, to try this conversion. Thank You all
 
If you don't have the tools or the skills it's best to send it out and $250 including the lock is not a bad deal.....of course if search you will find someone closer that can do it so you don't have to pay shipping.

As far as lining up, that's not a concern when going from percussion to flint with the Silers as the center of the pan on the flint is the same as the center of the notch for the drum. If the drum is resting on the lock plate the hole for the drum is centered, thus the liner will be centered when installed. Simple.

Now going from a gun originally built in flint with a liner to percussion it's not as sure as the hole for the liner may or may not be where the drum needs to go. Enjoy, J.D.
 
Ooopsee!!!
Wanted to verify the details with Matt today.
Turns out it's:
143.00 for the lock
250.00 for labor
50.00 for shipping back

Total: 443.00

I think I'll pass this time.
 
Oh yeah. So when I add my shipping to then it'll be pass 500.00. Definitely don't want to do this.
 
Dude! Just take the drum off measure the thread and get a touch hole liner to match. Get a small Siler flintlock and switch it out. If you run into a problem just ask for some help here. If it doesn’t work just put it back as a capper or then send it to someone to convert along with the new lock and liner. It ain’t rocket science. I did it in less than hour on my kitchen table.

Get the lock from Chambers and if you have to have it converted by someone find a local gunsmith to do it. This isn’t so special that it takes shipping it back to TVM. Really.
 
Back
Top