Percussion Caps is there a shortage

[Snakebite]

In response to "Snakebite's post"
Did this "A..hole" have a mask and gun??
I respect that everyone who is selling a product must make a profit to stay in business, but to actually gouge is wrong.
Perpetrators should be pointed out, so that others can avoid them.
Fred

Well, he had a couple guns, but he was pretty proud of them too. His smokeless powder was going to $44 a pound. Last time I bought powder (IMR 4895) it was $23 a pound and that wasn't but a couple months ago. I didn't see anyone buy anything from him.

 

[F.G. Ford]

Is CCI, Remington, or RWS not making percussion caps any longer?
Is there no longer a profitable market or demand for percussion caps?
Something is confusing here, there has been a demand for caps for the last 150 yrs., now with today's technology, manufacturers can no longer supply caps at an affordable price.
What gives?
It can't be the cost of copper, there's not enough copper in a can of caps to make a 9 mm case.
Where is the bottle neck?
Fred

 

[biliff]

The same hoarding/speculation virus that went thru the centerfire and rimfire crowd has found its way to percusion caps. Skip down a few topics and you'll find a discussion.

 

[galamb]

Hey Fred,

a few weeks back we got notice from Olin (Winchester) and North Silva (our CCI, Federal and Remington supplier), that due to continued component shortages and hoarding, they would only be shipping about 10% of our 2014 orders.

It was pretty much the same last year.

We have 9 tins of 100 (#11 CCI) at $8.99 a pop - haven't been able to get 10's or 209's at all for the past two hunting seasons.

I prefer CCI #11 mag caps. Buddy in Brockville (Gun Mart) had a couple dozen tins when I was last there (maybe last November).

 

[paradork]

My local shop has regular cci for 5 bucks a hundred. You can tell they are old, something that came out of someones safe. Might start slowly buying them cause they are cheap compared to what I've seen. The average now is 8 bucks a tin.

 

[Dwight Rutherford]

I remember a quote from Walt Kelly the creator of the comic strip Pogo, " We have seen the enemy and he is us." I believe the shortage has been caused by hoarders and profiteers. Over heard a comment I heard in a sporting goods store. Fellow appeared to be well over 60 was bragging he had more than 20,000 CCI #11 caps. Seems excessive.

 

[Zonie]

I'm sure the manufactures are making caps and the suppliers are delivering them.

The problem is FEAR and or GREED.

When some people see caps available rather than buying just what they will need, they buy everything in sight.
That leaves nothing for the next guy to walk in the door.

Others are greedy. They figure if they buy up everything in sight they will be able to turn around and sell it for a tidy profit.

Between these two groups caps, .22 ammo. primers and bullets have skyrocketed in price if they can even be found.

My hope is the people reacting from fear will calm down and just buy what they think they will need and leave the rest of the caps on the shelf so the next guy can get just what he needs.

My other hope is the greedy ones end up with $20,000 worth of caps and no one wants to buy any so he's stuck with them. :grin:

I know that neither of these hopes will happen soon but it doesn't hurt to dream.

 

[Jumpshot]

I talked to The Gun Works here in Springfield yesterday, they told me they've had CCI caps on order for over a year now and still nothing.

We sell ammunition, powder and caps where I work. We have been advised "again" this year of a continuing component shortage effecting all aspects of ammunition, including caps.

There is a couple of reasons given.

1) a component shortage that began back in 2012 and

2) guys/gals are "hoarding" what little is getting out.

The word from Winchester (Olin), Federal/CCI, and Remington (Silva) was to "expect no more than 10% of our order volume" for the 2014 season.

We are not having any issue getting #11 caps, but 10's and 209's have been impossible to come by for two years now.

So if you find some, like reason #2 above - "hoard them".

Including CCI caps?

 

[wpjson]

I have a question about the economics of this shortage. How does hoarding limit the number of caps shipped from the munufacturer? Doesn't the hoarding occur at the retail level? The guy at the shop where I buy told me he had 4 tins of 10's and 3 of 11's, so I rushed over and bought them all. That should last me a year. Usually I buy them a couple of tins at a time, but I will be needing them, so I bought all I could. That is where the hoarding is, is it not? But, the problem seems to be coming from the manufacturers. They are not shipping as many. Therefore, the hoarding must be occuring before they ship them. Unless, someone has access to the supply chain before they do. Am I making any sense?

 

[rafterob]

The hoarding caused the shortage. Manufacturers are concentrating on the high demand items first, primers and cartridge ammo. With the comparatively paltry market of muzzleloading caps getting less priority. My local supplier said he would get a carton each of #10,11 and 11 mag (10,000) and usually took him 5 years to sell them when guys bought 1 tin as they needed them.

 

[necchi]

How does hoarding limit the number of caps shipped from the manufacturer?

It's two fold,
Like Ghettogun said manufacturers are busy making other primers trying to stay caught up to other high demand markets,
Then,
Most shops don't buy direct from the manufactures, factories have set up accounts with suppliers so they don't have to deal with all the small time orders (been like that for decades). These suppliers have to fill cash up front "back-orders" before they can send stock out to all the shop's around the country.
Thanks to the easy access Global Market we have today with the internet there are thousands of people that are ordering with credit cards the same amount that many shop's use too order

 

[cynthialee]

Local supplier always has something but rarely what I ask for.
I have #10 and #11 nipples for my rifle, so if I have to change nipples to make the caps on hand work I can do that.

 

[satx78247]

LUCKY YOU. - I've checked every gun-shop around San Antonio & NOBODY has any at all.

yours, satx

 

[wpjson]

So the hoarding of caps did not create the shortage of caps. Why is there not a shortage of powder? Or is there? And balls? Why doesn't it occur accross the board? It just does not make any sense to me.

 

[wpjson]

Thanks all this helps me understand.

 

[Billnpatti]

I do not know the reason why #10 caps are almost impossible to find and, while #11 caps can be found, you have to hunt for them. I saw a guy on You Tube who was using large pistol primers for caps. He would remove the anvil from the primers and he said that they fit nicely and worked quite well as muzzleloading caps. He stated that he did not recommend doing it but it worked for him. I have not yet tried it but may do so in the not so distant future. If you try it, but sure to wear safety glasses when you pry out the anvils from the pistol primers. If you are careful, you should have no problems but just incase one should happen to go off, you want to have your eyes protected from flying bits of debris from the cap. I must include this disclaimer, while I have told you about this, I, like the guy on You Tube, do not recommend doing it. :hatsoff:

 

[FishDFly]

There is a shortage of what you listed, each one.

 

[wpjson]

There has been a general ammo shortage for years, right? I know with my modern rifle I bought a couple of boxes of ammo a few years back when a store went out of business, so I am fine there, but I was unaware of the shortage moving to black powder supplies. At current prices they should be motivated to increase supply. The same with caps. If they can sell them for double, there is an incentive to produce more. I might make the trip to Helena and pick me up 20 or so tins just for myself, if this looks to continue. Last week I just happened to find an old cap gun I had as a kid, over 50 years ago. I might have to go back to it, or are those rolls of caps short also? Just point a stick and go BANG BANG, I guess.

 

[FishDFly]

Numerous problems, M/L shooting in on the wane, less number of folks each year are shooting.

There has been a shortage of caps, balls, powder, molds, etc. for some time now.

The ammunition folks are pouring production into what is popular and the demand is high, .22 LR, .223, pistol ammunition, 30-30, etc.

If you are a manufacturer, you make and sell what is in demand.

Buying 20 tins as you are considering, you are part of the problem, you get 20 and other folks get none.

 

[BrownBear]

My other hope is the greedy ones end up with $20,000 worth of caps and no one wants to buy any so he's stuck with them. :grin:

I'm right with you step for step.

Around here we are so far out the supply chain, you have to get caps while they are available. Been that way for the last 15 years without regard for hoarders and scalpers.

As a result I've always picked up a few tins each season whether I needed them or not. And every once in a while over those 15 years, the local stores would even have a sale on them. Remember what an AMMO SALE was? :rotf:

Got to checking my supplies a couple of years back when a bud said they were out in town. I had waaaaay too many for common sense, especially considering I'm shooting as much or more with flinters now. Gave my bud three tins in exchange for a cup of his good coffee.

Now that the hoarders and scalpers have arrived it's giving me immense pleasure to continue providing a tin here and a tin there in exchange for a good cup of coffee. There are enough shooters in our neighborhood, I regularly get to enjoy good coffee and great conversation in exchange for a tin. Same spirit that we loan each other tools and helping hands as the needs arise.

I'm looking out for my fellow shooters, rather than scalping them. If we really are a brotherhood, it seems like the only way to go. Good neighbors, good friends, and good conversation. Scalpers can pound sand until I'm down to my last tin, and I'll still share half of it with a bud if it comes down to it.