max powder charge

[mga2588]

my lyman trade rifle came with two manuals. the lyman one says max charge 110grs 2f, 90grs 3f.the investarm manual says 90grs 2f, 70grs 3f. should i go by the lyman or investarm manual? i just bought some 3f and going to shoot this evening and try it out and see how gun likes it.one more question, 73 grs of 2f would be equal to how many grs of 3f??

 

[BrownBear]

I tried both in mine and didn't gain any trajectory or accuracy with the 110 grain charge. My gun was really happy with 90 grains of 3f, so it's been shooting that for years since. You don't say whether yours is a 50 or 54, but I'm guessing the latter. I'm citing my 54, because my 50 likes 80 grains of 3f best. Neither has been very happy with 2f of any flavor.

The rule of thumb for 3f is 10% less by volume than 2f.

BTW- With those charges, both my 50 and 54 are sighted in dead on at 75 yards. That puts them roughly an inch high at 50 yards and 3-4" low at 100 yards. Plenty flat for me, and shooting the 110 grain 2f charge didn't flatten trajectory at all, as far as I could tell. And with those charges I've only managed to recover one ball from any deer at any range. Dead deer quick.

 

[Sperit de bois]

You wrote you had a Lyman Rifle,,,,go with the Lyman Manual...
Rule of thumb,I love that term!!!! It means, Dont put your thumb between the hammer head and the nail"ha ha ha ha
In the past Pyrodex Hand out read

 

[mga2588]

my trade is a 50 and i love the way it shoots. im dead on at 75 yards with the 2f and will shoot later today and see how the 3f does. going to deer hunt with it so i want accuracy and penetration. thanks for the info.

 

[earl jernigan]

I find Bear is rite on. Over 90 grains burns after leaving the barrel, making a bigger FLASH, no better ballistic. I only hunt bulls eyes tho, not meat. So I am searching for the lightest charge my rifle will shoot, with the smallest groups. It is 50 grain of fff in my 54, 45 grain in the .50, 40 in my .45, 30 grains in the .40, and only 10 grains in my .32. I have a .36 I havent been able to get to group with any charge, more like a pattern. The larger rifles get ff. I have been shooting Goex due to its consistency.

HOSS

 

[mga2588]

i hate it when i have to figure out a good hunting load and have to do a lot of shooting but someone has to do it :wink: thanks for the advise

 

[nchawkeye]

I'd start with 70grs FFF and move up in 5 gr increments until I hit 85grs...Pick the most accurate load, any will kill deer with a 50 caliber round ball...

 

[crockett]

You didn't mention whether you are shooting PRB or conicals. With a PRB you can load about anything you want but on a heavy conical the pressure skyrockets and there really is a maximum charge. As the bullet weight increases the maximum powder charge should decrease. This depends on the caliber, etc- contact the manufacturer- they should furnish you with safe load data.
I always like heavy charges myself but only up to the recommended limit, never over. If you want more power get a bigger gun.

 

[William O.]

Investarms makes the barrels for not only Lyman but for other brands like Cabelas. If using traditional black powder like Goex in 3f granulation I would keep the powder charge below 100 grains for round ball (RB) shooting. What you really need to do is work up an accurate load first before trying anything close to a maximum powder charge. Start with 50 grains of powder, shoot 3-5 times at the same place on your target, which is placed at 50 to 75 yards. Don't adjust your sights or change anything at this point, just swab the bore between shots. After you shoot one group, increase your powder charge by 5 grains and repeat the process until your groups get nice and close together, then you've found the sweet spot as far as powder amount goes. After that you can start changing things like the patch thickness and type of lube used, adjust your sights, etc. For what it's worth, it may take 100 or so shots for your bore to get good and polished for best accuracy as Investarms barrels usually need it.

 

[Sperit de bois]

With a PRB you can load about anything you want
It's statements like this that cause Hunter Safety Instructors to lay awake at night.
DONT you believe that,read the Owners Manual,,the MFG list a MAXIMUM LOAD for a reason,
Some say it's for liability,,CORRECT the rifle could blow up.If it doesnt,,no blood no foul,if it does the area is shut down till the Police/Coronor clear the areaand the ANTI's roll in on it.
The truth is it might take less pressure to get the PRB moving, do to weight, than a conical but either way you are building LUP's.If a barrel cant be blown up cause "you loaded anything you wanted" why a barrels Proof Fired?????
Always read and follow the owners Manual. There are those who will tell you,"I have done so and so for ever and Iam still here"....
The question begs to be asked,"What were you thinking????

 

[necchi]

With a PRB you can load about anything you want,,,

Whoa! :td:
You didn't really mean that did ya? :shocked2: :nono:

 

[Pacobillie]

My .54 trade rifle likes 85 grains of Goex FFFg. At 90 grains, groups start to open up.

 

[Oldnamvet]

With a PRB you can load about anything you want,,,

Whoa! :td:
You didn't really mean that did ya? :shocked2: :nono:

I thought he was giving that as an example of a WRONG statement that has been put out there in the past.

 

[roundball]

the MFG list a MAXIMUM LOAD for a reason,
Some say it's for liability,,CORRECT the rifle could blow up.

Just a general reply...I recently made a comment about manufacturers liability and if it's being referred to a key word left out of my comment is "low ball". My statement was based on the belief that manufacturer's understandably establish conservative max load data to have some extra safety buffer built in with respect to liability...and some much more so than others.

Case in point, Rice Barrel Co. is VERY conservative in the load data they provide compared to other published load data charts...like T/C's load data which has been published and proven since 1970...going on a half century now with no problems.
Rice's much lower max load data typically runs about 2/3rds of T/C's in all calibers, one example being:
T/C .50cal = 110grns 2F......Rice .50cal = 80grns 2F

A HUGE difference...yet I'm certain no one would claim that a Rice barrel is inferior to a T/C barrel...indeed Rice is a top of the line barrel company in the industry.
Plus, if people can fairly often make the very human mistake of occasionally dry balling, there also has to have been many instances over time where people have also made the mistake of inadvertently loading a double charge of powder.

I haven't been in muzzleloading as long as some but in my heavy involvement for a solid 20 years now I've never heard of anyone blowing up any manufacturers blackpowder barrel using black powder or equivalent BP subs.
The obvious conclusion I make is that there is a huge safety margin built in to published load data.

 

[Sperit de bois]

Nope,, my posting was all my own,,no referance to yours in any way.Just happened to have a common thread/words.

 

[crockett]

Well...I said"about" anything and it was meant as hyperbole but I suppose for a newbie asking questions it wasn't very properly stated. Everyone was mentioning powder charges without considering bullet weight- I was just pointing out that with conicals the pressure goes up dramatically. Sorry folks took it wrong.

 

[necchi]

Oh,, :redface: Ooop's

 

[crockett]

Well my fault entirely. One thing I was told a long time ago is that normally if you overdo it on the powder with a PRB, the ball is already out the muzzle before all the powder of a too-large charge is burnt, so...no real benefit to overdoing a powder charge. Just wasting good powder.
And, since this is an exercise in re-living bygone days, it would seem to me that any backwoods hunter would not want to waste powder.