Jackie Brown barrels ?????

[rich pierce]

The topic seems to address at least 2 or 3 things. One is the use of DOM tubing for barrels and the safety of this practice. Another is how the use of such tubing is "sold" or described. A third is discussion of a specific gunmaker. Roundball did a good thing to get a topic going about DOM barrels specifically.

There is one more reason some folks use a DOM barrel and this is availability. For example, if I want a 48" fowler barrel made by boring barrel steel, I can order it from a custom barrel maker and wait 12-18 months to get it, or I can see if R.E. Davis has any in stock for their fusil kits. Or I could get a DOM barrel from a very well respected "artist" gunmaker who has tested the particular DOM tubing he uses, in 2 weeks.

I ordered and received a 48" long, round 20 ga DOM barrel, as beautifully profiled as any barrel I've owned, to build a cheap and simple "parts gun" musket for my own use. I'll proof it when I get a chance to do so in a month or so (they won't let me do it at the range) when I go to a friend's farm, double balled, double charged (180 grains FFG), 3 times, with measurements taken. If it's good I will trust it.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I have used tubing barrels in the past from Ben Coogle. Exactly what he uses I don't know. The only time I ever use this stuff is when I need excetional length. I have made a number of hudson valley guns with 60" barrels in 11 bore with Coogle tubing barrels. No Problemo. Being large bored guns I don't worry much as the pressure should be comparativly light. Unfortunately I don't remember if their was a visible seem on the inside or not....I know there was nothing visible on the outside.
I just had a customer send me a 56" tubing barrel in 20 bore made by Ken Netting. There is a visible seem inside of this barrel. Looks to have been reamed as it's super slick on the inside. If Ken Netting built the barrel I don't have any problems or worries about asafety issue. Although, I WILL be proofing this one which is something I don't do with bored barrels. Cool barrel by the way, full round and probably weighs less than 4 1/2 lbs.
I might add, Those HVF barrels Coogle makes me had 1 3/8 to 1 1/2 breeches. NOT cheap either, $5 an inch and this was some years ago.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I just asked a question about some kind of documentation to show they were unsafe and so far I haven't seen it.

You are absolutely right. A lot of verbiage here but not a thing to support the negative rantings.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Of greater concern to me is why there are some posters here who can be counted on to be confrontational and make statements that are or insulting or nearly so to other contributors. Why is that? Wouldn't it be more fun to share our thoughts, expertise and experiences in a spirit of mutual respect and common courtesy?

That bothers me as well. I don't understand why it is allowed.

 

[Stumpkiller]

How would you have us fairly enforce censorship here? If I, or the other moderators, deleted every post where it was suspected someone was "talking through their hat" or expressing a strongly felt emotion this would be a pretty dry place.

I don't see where any of our self-censorship rules have been broken in this discussion. We don't have a proper documention and due dilligence requirement regarding posts. We just provide the medium for idea exchange and ask you to keep it civil. We don't pick and choose topics to allow unless they get wildly off topic, personal, religious or political.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showrules.php

 

[Rifleman1776]

How would you have us fairly enforce censorship here? If I, or the other moderators, deleted every post where it was suspected someone was "talking through their hat" or expressing a strongly felt emotion this would be a pretty dry place.

I don't see where any of our self-censorship rules have been broken in this discussion. We don't have a proper documention and due dilligence requirement regarding posts. We just provide the medium for idea exchange and ask you to keep it civil. We don't pick and choose topics to allow unless they get wildly off topic, personal, religious or political.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showrules.php[/quote]

PM sent.

 

[Black Hand]

Of greater concern to me is why there are some posters here who can be counted on to be confrontational and make statements that are or insulting or nearly so to other contributors. Why is that? Wouldn't it be more fun to share our thoughts, expertise and experiences in a spirit of mutual respect and common courtesy? :idunno:

I thought we WERE sharing our thoughts and experiences in the spirit of mutual respect and courtesy.

But apparently dissenting opinions should be censored because someone doesn't agree with them? I don't see anything in this thread that is anything more than the experiences of many shared with the group.

As to censorship, if you don't like the topic or discussion, then don't read it. Civil discussion can and will lead to disagreements and disagreements lead to learning. One must only have an open mind and then decide for themselves....

Our moderator (Stumpkiller) pretty much hinted at the problem:
Censorship is the slippery road to hell paved with good intentions (or the appearance thereof).

 

[rich pierce]

Ken does a great job profiling those barrels.

 

[Claude Mathis]

As to censorship, if you don't like the topic or discussion, then don't read it.

That's fair advice, but sometimes, someone will join in a discussion that has been going on for some time. When that 'new' person starts making rude or offensive comments, should all the people who had been enjoying the discussion leave?

Yes, it's fair to say, "If you don't like it, don't read it"

But, it's also fair to say, "If you don't like it, stay out of it".

 

[Steve Tobler]

Just curious ... What exactly do you do with the product of your good October day ?

Heres a good October day with a Jackie Brown smoothbore.

 

[Leatherbark]

Although it looks like I'm the great white hunter of squirrill, five of these, although shot with the same JB Poorboy belonged to a youngin (30 year old) that I've been teachin muzzloading. Lord it took us forever to skin and cut up those. Especiallly the fox squirrels. Whole lot easier to skin em as soon as you shoot em and put em in a freezer bag. Next morning him and wife and girls had boiled squirrel off the bones fried in bacon grease with gravy made off of the grease and bicuits..............My recipe of course. Good God almighty I'm makin myself slobber.

 

[roundball]

#5s ?

 

[Leatherbark]

Nickle plated 5's ...........70grains 2fg, over that an overshot wad and a wool lubed wad with and 80gr measure of shot (1-1/8oz)and another overshot wad. Standing under hickory and shooting up at a pretty extreme angle at times. Always seemed to be a 30 yard maximum. Have to shoot twice sometimes. I am going to 6's this season and experiment with 80gr of 2f and 1-1/4 oz of the 6's. If my barrel bursts I'l wrap the rest around the nearest tree but first save the Siler lock. I'll post the picture of the barrel too.
Bob

 

[roundball]

Nickle plated 5's

I experimented with some modern manufactured copper and nickel plated shot the past couple years and found them to be junk compared to just good quality hard magnum lead shot.

Unlike the excellent, real plated Lubaloy shot from Winchester decades ago, today's Lawerence brand or Ballistic Products brand stuff just seems to have a thin "wash" over cheap soft lead...just pouring then in and out of a metal coffee can, I notice more and more shiny spots where the thin wash just rubed right off, and I never got the performance out of them like I do with some Lubaloy...so for me, IMO the modern stuff is a sham and a waste of money...hard magnum lead shot patterns better for me.

IMO, #6s will "look better" on pattern paper, but #5s are hard to beat for squirrels...25yds is kind of my self imposed limit but I've taken a couple at 30 steps to the side of the tree they were on...anyhow, I've come to love fiddling around with smoothbores more than I ever have with rifles...good luck this fall

 

[Rifleman1776]

The question might be: WHY are they so much less costly than those from most other builders?

I'll toss a guess based on 40+ years of observation of people in various avocations, not just ml, going into business then failing and only a few lasting. Jackie is a one man operation. He has his building techniques down for a limited number of styles. No employess, low overhead translates into lower cost at the consumer end. Builders and suppliers who try to grow their businesses often get into a situation where they are not big enough to handle the increased costs like employees, higher rent or mortage payments, bank loans, etc. Currently, the only middle-sized guy, I'm aware of, who has successfully conquered that swim upstream is Danny Caywood. Small operation that has been around for a number of years and, seemingly, successfully.
As for Jackie Brown, I'll agree, it looks like one of his cost saving methods is the use of the controversial seamless tubing barrels.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Not speaking about anyone in particular but there is a style of ML gun production that introduces some corner cuts in the production process to reduce cost and time and evidently increases profit.
Things like routed out ramrod channels, single lock bolts, tang screws as opposed to bolts, etc. come to mind.
Add soft but "pretty" wood, straight barrels, cheaper bulk hardware (often incorrect for the build so as to ease production), lock kits, etc.

Now these are legit ways to offer a much cheaper (but also inferior) product to the market. Recognition of this unique part of the market where one wants a gun that looks more real than a factory gun but does not want to invest in custom or semi-custom work is pure genius in my opinion.

The problem comes in adding shoddy work into the mix of an already bare bones design and veering off of that model by incorporating even more cuts therefore reducing the quality even more. I have seen firsthand some examples that should have never left someone's shop, no matter what kind of personal life was involved.

 

[Leatherbark]

Nickle plated 5's

I experimented with some modern manufactured copper and nickel plated shot the past couple years and found them to be junk compared to just good quality hard magnum lead shot.

Unlike the excellent, real plated Lubaloy shot from Winchester decades ago, today's Lawerence brand or Ballistic Products brand stuff just seems to have a thin "wash" over cheap soft lead...just pouring then in and out of a metal coffee can, I notice more and more shiny spots where the thin wash just rubed right off, and I never got the performance out of them like I do with some Lubaloy...so for me, IMO the modern stuff is a sham and a waste of money...hard magnum lead shot patterns better for me.

IMO, #6s will "look better" on pattern paper, but #5s are hard to beat for squirrels...25yds is kind of my self imposed limit but I've taken a couple at 30 steps to the side of the tree they were on...anyhow, I've come to love fiddling around with smoothbores more than I ever have with rifles...good luck this fall

I feel a whole lot better at 25 yards also. I sort of enjoy letting them go if they are out of range. Sort of like "Counting Coup"

Well dang. I bought 10 lbs of Lawrence Copper plated No6 shot a few weeks ago...........Have to throw a better pattern than the Ballistic products nickel plated 5's Ive been using.


Tinkering with a smoothbore is definately fun.

Bob

 

[roundball]

Well dang. I bought 10 lbs of Lawrence Copper plated No6 shot a few weeks ago...........Have to throw a better pattern than the Ballistic products nickel plated 5's Ive been using.
Tinkering with a smoothbore is definately fun.
Bob

Maybe I got a bad batch...take a couple shots with the same size hard magnum lead while you're at the range and do a hole-count comparison at 25-30 yards and see...

Here’s my 25yd squirrel load of #5s on a 3.5” tuna can, testing a 42” .28ga barrel earlier this summer:

 

[bud in pa]

Now you guys have got me nervous. I recently bought a container of nickle plated shot. The reason being, I read an article on live pigeon shooting in Europe. Supposedly they only use nickle plated shot because of the superior patterning and penetration. Aomunts weren't mentioned but supposedly very large amounts of money are bet on each round.

 

[roundball]

I've heard of a very expensive, premium brand of plated shot manufactured somewhere else...maybe it's manufactured over there in Europe ??

But the junk I got from MidwayUSA and Ballistics Products is definitely not it.
:wink: