is Mother-of-Pearl acceptable for inlay?

[Stophel]

Here's one I found on a quick search.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/fts/tampa_200502A25.html

Don't know about the value, though.

I think the red coral is kinda neat.

 

[colmoultrie]

Gee Russ, Cosmoline has shown you two examples of MoP on fowling pieces, and I've shown you one on a Ky rifle. If you don't like them (and I only really like the last French piece he links to), you can say that, but please stop ridiculing the examples people show you. Prejudice is not information. Again, we don't know the style of fowler in question, so it may not be the English or American fowler you have in your mind.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Thats easy. Sequins have little holes in the middle, so just nail 'em on. Once you've decided to build an ugly gun you may as well go all the way. Folks always enjoy a good laugh and it's kind of you to provide one!

 

[rabjr]

That is cool, I've never seen coral up close and wonder what the texture is, looks like its easily workable?? :hmm:

 

[rabjr]

Thats easy. Sequins have little holes in the middle, so just nail 'em on. Once you've decided to build an ugly gun you may as well go all the way. Folks always enjoy a good laugh and it's kind of you to provide one!

:rotf: :surrender: Oh my god Russ your better than my med's. :haha:

 

[Stophel]

That is cool, I've never seen coral up close and wonder what the texture is, looks like its easily workable?? :hmm:

If I were to guess (and it would just be a guess), it would probably be about the hardness/workability of good, hard antler. I think coral is basically a bony structure... I think I have seen a pistol like this in person once at a gunshow, but I didn't pay much attention to it at the time. Typical North African.


I've seen North African long guns that have mother of pearl ALL over the stock, shaped as fish scales!

This kind of thing is neat in its own way, but back to the original problem of the single inlay, I think the greatest obstacle he would have is the engraving, which I can imagine is difficult at best. It wouldn't look so bad as a cheekpiece inlay, or maybe centered on a wood box lid, but I think it would require a commensurate amount of decoration all over the rest of the gun to look right.
:wink:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Gee Russ, Cosmoline has shown you two examples of MoP on fowling pieces, and I've shown you one on a Ky rifle. If you don't like them (and I only really like the last French piece he links to), you can say that, but please stop ridiculing the examples people show you. Prejudice is not information. Again, we don't know the style of fowler in question, so it may not be the English or American fowler you have in your mind.

The rifle you showed has no provenance to indicate that it was originally made with mop inlays and frankly, without proof, it seems unlikely. That the builder would complete a beautiful long rifle and then use a fragile material like mop on a rifle that would be out in all sorts of weather and knocked against hard objects is a bit hard to believe.

If by fowling pieces you are:
A. referring to that crudely made African/who-knows-where-it-came-from clunker with the utterly tasteless and irrationally laid out and egregious overuse of mop pasted on it like makeup on the face of a two dollar chippy, that hardly qualifies as a true fowler. And I seriously doubt that our O.P. is building one any where like that. Not even if he is stone drunk and just dropped a hit of LSD.

B. if, for even the tiniest moment, you think that our O.P. is building an extremely early French fowler you have a vivid imagination or have urgent need of medical assistance. Guns of this sort were for royalty and the very rich and were seldom if ever used. And never in bad weather. That's why they have survived in such fine condition. Even with scads of mop slathered all over them. The guns that saw more normal use tended to be much simpler and tasteful. Figured you'd have known this.

I understand your love of mop. It's O.K. You go out in public with a big revolver with big MOP grips and you like mop on fowlers to the point of using completely irrelevant examples to try and prove that American/English fowlers were decorated with scabrous clods of the stuff. They were not. They in fact were noted for their slim and elegant lines and their simple grace. They weren't BBQ guns, they were the prized possessions of people who preferred the beauty of the gun itself--a kind of Shaker like appreciation for form. To stick a chunk of mother of pearl on a fine gun that never had such muck on it would be the equivalent to Leonardo painting a scab on the Mona Lisa's cheek. To those with a reverence and understanding of such things, and there many here, this is preaching to the choir. To the others, I hope mop is cheap and I leave the market to you. I hear it makes a great facing for automobile dashboards! YEE-HAAAAW!!!!

Regarding your statement that prejudice is not information. At last we agree on something! But neither is wishful thinking. And the idea that mop was often used on fine fowlers of the sort we are speaking of is just wishful thinking. :v

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I have an old piece of Zuni pawn silver and it has coral in it. The texture is smooth as glass and it seems fairly hard. It's old and it was worn by several people before I came by it, and the coral looks as if it was new. I've seen a number of genuine African/Turkish/western Med antique guns with red coral mounts and it's rare to see much wear on the coral. The gun may be worn out and some of the coral may be missing, what's there looks good. The coral I've seen isn't really inlaid, it was held in place with thin silver sheet around the base of the piece. I can't recall the name of the technique at the moment.

 

[Stophel]

It's held on in more or less the same way stones are held into jewelry...gripped by ringing it with metal. You can see on the pistol shown that it has an almost "cloisonne" effect.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Yeah, but there's a name for it. It's an ancient art--goes way, way back. The Moors and peoples of the western Med region were masters of the art.

 

[arw22lr]

I have seen m-o-p used as inlays on a NY flintlock rifle (unsigned): cheekpiece star, wrist inlay, and maybe barrel key escutcheons (the inlets were so deep that I believe they were there, but fell out). They were held on with brass pins and not engraved. Weren't gaudy. I wonder, though, how you deal with m-o-p when sanding, staining, and finishing? Dust is hazardous?

 

[Cosmoline]

This fellow has some advice on the subject, and photos:

The mother-of-pearl and abalone inlays are done in the same manner as the metal inlays; cut to shape with a jeweler's saw and a diamond wheel on a Dremel tool, with a bevel on the edge, glued on the spot, traced with the knife, popped off, and carved out. I confess; only gel superglue holds these in, but I've never lost any.

http://greyhavenarms.com/fowler.aspx

Course I'm sure this fella is just a pimp and a hack like the rest of us MOP lovers :

:grin:

 

[Cosmoline]

using completely irrelevant examples to try and prove that American/English fowlers were decorated with scabrous clods of the stuff.

When were we limited to traditional early American and English fowlers? There's a lot more to traditional ml'rs than that. I've seen Indian guns decorated with the most remarkable array of shiny things. You seem to believe that anything with MOP is going to fall apart at the first gust of wind. While I've seen MOP crack, I've also seen plenty of wood crack. Properly done and on a reasonable scale it wouldn't be particularly fragile at all.

 

[rabjr]

This fellow has some advice on the subject, and photos:

The mother-of-pearl and abalone inlays are done in the same manner as the metal inlays; cut to shape with a jeweler's saw and a diamond wheel on a Dremel tool, with a bevel on the edge, glued on the spot, traced with the knife, popped off, and carved out. I confess; only gel superglue holds these in, but I've never lost any.

http://greyhavenarms.com/fowler.aspx

Course I'm sure this fella is just a pimp and a hack like the rest of us MOP lovers :

:grin:

Forgive my ignorance but is mother of pearl and abalone inlays similar? I looked at your, documentary and enjoyed it but unless I missed it, I didn't see anything that said this was abalone. I just never heard of this being used as an inlay.

 

[Cosmoline]

Abalone is just a particular kind of shell that is used to make esp. nice MOP.

 

[rabjr]

Ok, wasn't sure having never had Abalone in hand before.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I have seen m-o-p used as inlays on a NY flintlock rifle (unsigned): cheekpiece star, wrist inlay, and maybe barrel key escutcheons (the inlets were so deep that I believe they were there, but fell out). They were held on with brass pins and not engraved. Weren't gaudy. I wonder, though, how you deal with m-o-p when sanding, staining, and finishing? Dust is hazardous?

Yeah, if I used mop on a rifle that I built I sure as Hell wouldn't sign it either. But there were fops and pimps and girly-men in every era and someone had to build guns for them. Could have been a ladies gun I suppose. Good place to point out that this is a rifle, not a classic style longfowler.

I'd finish the wood after the mop bits were already fitted but not attached and the wood taken down to its final level.

The dust is hazardous to humans. It destroys lung tissue and causes rectal bleeding in laboratory mice. Although why mice would be working with mop is a mystery to me. You'd think they'd have more sense--not to mention better taste.

 

[colmoultrie]

Nice tutorial and a nice fowler. Thanks for posting that.

Now to sum up:

MoP was not used very much on 18th and 19th century flintlock or percussion longarms in use in America, but there are some examples out there.

It will be somewhat difficult to cut easily, and it may be prone to breakage, either as you do it or afterwards. Silver or brass would probably be a better choice.

Inletting that shape will be difficult, to say the least. Many on this board have the skills to do it, but for a first gun, that design laid out on a silver/brass oval will be easier.

The taste aspect of MoP is controversial, but do what you want on your own gun.

Russ T. Frizzen is in a mood where he has insulted Joehenz, Cosmoline, LaBonte, WildEagle, and me, just for showing examples or stating that MoP was used on a number of guns. :shake: I have no (gentlemanly) reply to this at this point, except to say that he is either stealing Swampy's pain meds, or perhaps he needs to. :blah: (glad to see you're on the mend, Swampy, btw.) That will be my last reply to his personal attacks.

Do what you want - do it well, and it will usually look good. Do it badly and... you will fit right in with innumerable badly-done, cheap guns of any era. It is probably historically correct to carry something plug-ugly, either fancy or plain, as so many people seem to have done, but I wouldnt advise it.

 

[Cosmoline]

Fops and dandies, is it! Which I'm a MACARONI, sirrah!

Actually that gave me a good idea for a comical period scrimshaw:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I realise that you've taken your ball and bat gone home and won't reply and that's fine with me. I once dated a girl who had hissy fits like this so it doesn't bother me. Of course, we were both 16 and it may have been a hormone thing. That's something you could have checked out. But my point has not been that mop wasn't used on firearms. I know damn well it was. I've been studying frontloading guns for a long time now and have seen many with the stuff on them. But the O.P. wanted to know if it was appropriate for a fowler, which on this Forum tends to mean an English or American fowler of 18th century style unless stated otherwise. Not a rifle from any period, not a French fowler from the 1600s and not whatever that thing was with triangles stuck all over it. It was foul, but not a fowler. Any way you have a nice day now. :v