How much does a grain of powder weigh?

[Griz44Mag]

You are not getting that volume does not equal weight.

Sorry I cannot help you understand, Have a good day

The way your message read, I thought that was exactly what you were claiming. We are on the same page. In the PRS shooter world, I load by weight, and weight only. Volume is NOT a factor in anything. The volume game seems to be a BP issue. What I was clearing up was information I see here concerning volume and accuracy. Even in the BP world, weight is the only ACCURATE way to have consistent charges. I load 23 different chamberings, and have been loading for over 55 years. Yea, I get it.

 

[Gene L]

The discrepancies you mention are the reason we measure Black powder by volume and not actual weight.

I've done it both ways with BP, and found say 60 grains (weight) almost always shows 60 grains (volume). This is with Goex 3F. I only did it so I could pre-load vials at home using a grain scale in order to save time at the bench.

BP can be measured by weight or by volume, volume being based on the amount of powder it takes to fill up a (say) 60 grain by weight tube. But when using a substitute, volume is the only way to go.

 

[azmntman]

With subs just pour a load on the scale (from an accurate measure) and repeat on scale and it would be the same amount of "better" than volume.

I have never yet weighed a load myself :idunno:

 

[Mr. Troll]

Exactly what I do. I took 10 premeasured "volume" loads and weighed each one. took the average of the 10. Wrote that down in my book, so I have a reference when I'm loading tubes for a range trip.

 

[rodwha]

Granted I didn’t weigh more than a single charge but found my 30 grn setting to weigh ~33 grns of 3F Olde Eynsford. I don’t use any other BP, but a fellow on another forum did make a comparison of several powders including a few substitutes. Olde E and Swiss weigh more for the same volume.

 

[Gene L]

A volume measure isn't infinitely adjustable. The ones I have have five-grain notches on them. You're going for a rough measure of volume based on BP weight. I would think 60 grains (weight) wouldn't be 60 grains if using a substitute, which I think is lighter than BP.

I've weighed quite a few charges, which I dropped from a flask. They were the same, after about 20 I stopped weighing them, given the limitations of the scale, which IIRC was with .2 + or -.

 

[nhmoose]

What it all comes down to is BP does not need the precise measurement that a smokeless powder requires to even the tenth of a grain.

Most bench shooters in BP use a volume measure and no scale. Even the slug gun guys.

They use the same measure every time and do not swap between different ones.

 

[Gene L]

True, and BR shooters drop the load and visually inspect the case. But they use very good droppers. I've got two Harral's powder droppers for smokeless and they're very accurate. As accurate as my scales will measure. Most scales aren't accurate for .2 grains, and I don't think it matters. Richard Lee did the math on how much 1/10 of a grain of powder (smokeless) or maybe more than that, and mathematically, it's insignificant.

 

[meanmike8665]

I have to ask, ' most bench shooters' where? Where I shoot that is not true.


Michael

 

[rodwha]

Olde E isn’t a substitute and weighed more than the markings. However I use an adjustable rifle measure my father gave me which I figure would be based on 2F if nothing else. But then being from the 80’s or 90’s the graduations wouldn’t quite measure up to the typical black powders available then as Olde E wasn’t developed and Swiss wasn’t a thing here then.

Granted it’s not a comprehensive test but these were his results weighing 30 grn volume charges (I believe he measured several each for a more fair figure):



As you can see Pyrodex and Triple 7 weigh less than the Olde E or Swiss as you figure. Black MZ weighs close and Schuetzen (Grafs) weighs a good bit more. And I’m guessing their weight is similar to most other BPs as it’s performance is more similar.

 

[crockett]

Do two charges that weigh exactly the same occupy a different volume? If so, that effects pressure and velocity. Do two charges that occupy the exact same volume weigh differently? Same thing from the other direction. Does the volume of the charge change by how hard you seat the ball over the load?
I used to weigh out all my charges AND my groups were better but I wonder if they were better because my confidence was higher which made me shoot better.

 

[rodwha]

I’ve only weighed my charges as I sent M.D. some of my various bullets for him to test with the same powder to shoot across his chronograph. But I might just do so anyway as I bought some preload tubes from Winchester Suttler and enjoy making paper cartridges.

I seat my projectiles with a nice firm press of the lever. It’s the only way I know of to be consistent when loading, though I saved a large spring from a trampoline a neighbor kid tossed over my fence. As many claim Triple 7 will be erratic when loaded firmly, though I don’t see evidence of such at 15 yds (can I tell?) as the groups are the same as those when using BP, I’ve considered trying the spring as a means to be consistent figuring the spring will begin to bend before the projectile is forcefully seated. I don’t use gorilla force but it is rather firm.

 

[nhmoose]

To meanmike

The old NY Ft Ticonderoga ML club and all the NE territorials.

National match record setters in fact. Two were barrel makers.

 

[meanmike8665]

Thanks for the answer. Just for conversation, I know some of today's top bench shooter; Phoenix, Friendship, and the top ten Territorials both heavy and light bench and Buffalo and most use weighed charges and weighed balls. I also know the top overall Ladies shooter and I know for a fact she shoots weighed charges and weighed balls in all her matches.

Michael

 

[Rifleman1776]

Thanks for the answer. Just for conversation, I know some of today's top bench shooter; Phoenix, Friendship, and the top ten Territorials both heavy and light bench and Buffalo and most use weighed charges and weighed balls. I also know the top overall Ladies shooter and I know for a fact she shoots weighed charges and weighed balls in all her matches.

Michael

Those serious (obsessed?) 'X' hunters will try anything to help their scores. Some say mantras, most have loading routines that can be comical to watch. The mindset with many is: 'if he is doing that i should to'. I recall some Muzzle Blasts articles of the past testing minor variations in powder loads. Accuracy deviations were, essentially, nonexistent. e.g. going from 50 to 52 or 48.

 

[meanmike8665]

Are you saying, it is a waste of time try something to win a match? What does a loading chain have to do, With weighing powder charges.
Now, if you are pointing out that everyone who shoots a muzzle loader does ' weird ' stuff to get there best groups, I agree. To me one of the funniest ones is the guy who shoots a spit patch. I have a seen lot of guys walk around with pillow ticking hanging out of the their mouths an
New trying to talk. The image of that make me laugh every time.
Doing what it takes to win a match--that is life.
I saw you post resently, about winning a 100 yard match, good for you BTW, but shouldn't everyone strive to do that?
If you just poured some powder, slammed any old ball and patch down and jerked the trigger good for you. But if you worked at shooting your best 5 shots and won, well that is how I enjoy my hobby.

Michael

 

[Gene L]

I have to ask, ' most bench shooters' where? Where I shoot that is not true.


Michael

Where I shot, it was true. But that was before electronic scales that were battery powered. Some time ago.

 

[mushka]

I shot high power competitively for many years and the one thing that was very evident was being consistent from string to string, shot to shot. I would suppose shooting muzzle loaders would be the same. Consistency rules even if it looks funny to some.

 

[Gene L]

There is a basic difference in High Power and BR.

 

[yonderin]

A while ago I weighed a few charges, different grades, manufacturers and years of production.

As I recall it averaged pretty close to one grain by weight for one grain by volume. Others may well have found differently.