Frustrating Dilemna!

[Roguedog]

Well, I have been shooting all summer and fall with my Lyman GPR flintlock in anticipation of this falls hunting season. About a week ago, I got everything, I thought, dialed in. I had found the magic patch/powder combo and was cutting holes at 50 yards. I went out yesterday for another session and was spraying shots all around the bull in about an 8" diamter. An 8" group for me is NOT going to get it done.

Here is what I found out. Upon finding some of my shot patches, they were mangled, torn and burned badly and I could pull them apart easily with my fingers. Now the patches prior to being shot were very strong and could not be torn. Indeed, these were the exact same patches I had been using previously. My question, why all of a sudden are my patches being destroyed? Previously, my recovered patches could almost be used again. I have been shooting a long time and this has me puzzled. I was trying to think of all the variables that could have led to this. I have been lubing my patches with TOTW mink oil lube. The only additional variable that I can think of, at this time, is that some of these patches had been dampended with Ballistol prior to lubing with the mink oil.

Bottom line, I am going to make me another batch of patches and see what happens. Sometimes the process of getting our weapons dialed in can be frustrating.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Now, you are starting to enjoy the frustrating fun of being an ml'er.
Answers to problems like yours are not always easy, or possible, to nail down.
I'll bet ye weren't holding yer mouth right and Venus wasn't in the house of the Moon that day. :wink:
Good luck.
P.S. Edit: BTW, be sure to kiss yer wife before going to the range. Unhappy wives can hex yer shooting. Fer certain, fer sure. I know it for a fact, I read it in a book by Vance Randolph.

 

[mhb]

I don't know about your chosen patch lubricant, but I have found that pre-lubricating patches with some of the water-based lubes and storing the patches wet for some length of time can cause deterioration of the material, leading to the type of patch damage you describe.
When using wet lubes, I wet only a few at a time, on the day of intended use (usually on-the-spot), and keep them in a closed tin or cap box so they don't dry out.
I suspect freshly-lubed, new patches will solve your problem.

mhb - Mike

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

I agree. Check your lube. :hmm:

 

[Roguedog]

Kind of my thoughts. I too have experienced degradation of patch material that has been dampened for an extended period of time. Considering all things are equal with the exception of the patches, I intend to make a new batch, lube them as I'm shooting, and see what happens. If this solves the problem then it will have been an easy fix. I appreciate the responses.

Jeff

 

[Black Hand]

Use the mink oil by itself...

 

[Alden]

I understand the patches dried but I suspect you weren't getting much "mink" oil "in" them.

How hard do you have to press minks to get the oil out anyway!?

 

[Roguedog]

Trying to press live minks into my patches got to be a bit hard, as a result I went to used the mink lube instead. I pretty well saturate a patch. My thinking was that would help me keep from burning my patches up. Oh well, there are no certainties in this life, except for death and taxes.

Jeff

 

[steelerfan]

I just got back from the range, we were shooting 2 different flintlocks, one with a nice clean & slick bore, the other had been sitting, the patches that came out of the first rifle were just dirty with black powder, the other rifle was sending out patches that were pretty much shredded even though that rifle had been cleaned first since it had been sitting, although it still shot decent groups it wasn't shooting nearly as good as the first rifle, which was shooting one ragged whole at 50 yds.
On a side note, the guy with the first rifle lubes his patches with a small amount of Murphys Oil Soap, about a shot glass full, mixed with water in a 16 oz.squirt bottle. He says he's done this for years & doesn't has to clean the bore every 3-4 shots as the Murphy's cleans & lubes every time he loads the ball & patch. He doesn't use Bore Butter until the end of the day when it's time to clean it & put it away

 

[Roguedog]

Well, that's one variable I can take out of the equation. My guns get a good cleaning immediately after shooting, and my bores are nice and clean. I am thinking that for whatever reason, my patches had lost strength from being damp for an extended period. This may not be it but I intend to try again with fresh cut patches and will lube prior to the shot. We shall see.

Jeff

 

[steelerfan]

If that's the case I would certainly think the material in your patches simply broke down from exposure to the lube

 

[Roguedog]

I guess so but what puzzles me is that my patches never broke down before. I have always kept prelubed patches in my tin and they have always seem to have shot fine. Again, the only difference is that some of these patches had been sprayed with Ballistol. If it shoots fine with new patches then I guess I will know.

Jeff

 

[Sunkmanitu Tanka]

Apart for the Dutch Schoultz system, that I use succesfully, I used to try out several well known lubes but hey ... I like to experiment and so all the time I am trying out new shooting patch/load combo's. Allthough I read a lot of times about the simple use of spit patches in the past, I never got to try them out. Last weekend I shot a nice 13 shot offhand competition target with my Pedersoli Kentucky .45 cal. rifle. I loaded it with ox yoke lubed .20 patches, a 445 cal ball and a load of 56 grains Swiss nr. 2 (fffg). I had some range time to spare and some loose balls and patches and had a go at spit patches... The results where about equal to the previous 13 shot target, allthough I developed a mighty thirst after wetting all those patches (mind you, I sometimes develop a mighty thirst without any reason :redface: )The surprise only came later, at home. I cleaned the gun with only a few patches, where in the past, I used a lot of patches and elbow grease to clean up the gun. The difference was remarcable! I also experienced that loading went easier with the spit patches... I will certainly experiment further in this direction! (Did you notice how cleverly I now got myself some new range time?) :thumbsup:

 

[Roguedog]

That's interesting! I typically lube my patches pretty thoroughly. Now I am thinking maybe too much. I certainly can't clean my gun with one or two patches. This is what this game is all about. Experimentation! I will try less lube and see what happens.

Jeff

 

[Billnpatti]

If you use a "lube-as-you-go" method, try to find a way to assure that your patches have exactly the same amount of lube for each shot. Variations in the slickness of the bore will have an effect on your accuracy. if one patch has more lube than the next patch, they will likely not have the same POI. This is the premise for Dutch Schoultz' dry patch method. When the patches are lubed as he tells you, each patch will have the same amount of lube in it. another very important thing for accuracy is to wipe your bore between shots and do it exactly the same way every time. Dutch addresses that, too. It works. www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com Do yourself a favor and slip $20 out of the cookie jar and order a copy of his system. Money very well spent.

 

[Roguedog]

You know? I think I'll do just that. While I have been pretty successful with my shooting in the past. I always want to get better and more consistent. I think somebody once mentioned something about recreating the wheel. I choose not to. Case in point is that I never thought about the same amount of lube per patch. Now mind you, most of the time, my patches are lubed about the same but I think I would take great interest in reading about this method.

Jeff

 

[Walks with fire]

I use the TOW Mink oil paste. I don't put it on until I am going out to shoot and I only put it on the side that goes toward the powder. Too much lube in not a good thing in my TC barrel. It actually shoots best with a spit lubed patch on the powder side only; just lick and load but that doesn't work for freezing weather.

In my early days I used a patch that was french fried in Crisco shortening and it wasn't consistant at all. Try the mink oil and see if it works for you.

 

[Roguedog]

I too use the TOW mink oil paste. I think my problem may be two fold. One, patches that had been damp. Two, too much lube. I am gonna back down a bit on the lube and use fresh patches. I am optimistic that this will solve the problem. It's frustrating because a couple of weeks ago, I left the range with my last three shots almost touching each other. Went back a week later and was knuckle balling rounds in there. I have a strong desire to be deadly accurate. Nothing is worse to me than wounding a deer. Makes me sick to my stomach!

Jeff

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

I am a proponent of the less lube is better school of shooting. I have found that the least amount of lube improves my accuracy. I have taken to using a 50/50 mix of Ballistol and Bee’s wax putting it in tin and taking my dry patching material and just swiping one side in the tin scraping the excess off on the edge of the tin and then cutting the patch at the muzzle.

I think Bill makes a excellent point about consistent lube level but the above method is working for plinking and casual practice.

 

[Roguedog]

Well, I went back yesterday for my final (I hoped) range session. Our season opens next Saturday and I was hoping to be done with this long before now. Anyway, I cut some new patches and lubed them with mink oil tallow. No destroyed patches and they could all be used again. So I'm good on that point. My accuracy was still suffering. As a result, I lowered my powder charge to 75 grains of 3F black to see what would happen. What happened is my last three shots were touching one another. I called it good and packed up my stuff. Obviously more testing is needed but I feel like I can probably put one in the boiler room of a deer. Thanks for all the suggestions.