Fine grade of pyrodex in a flinter

[dukewellington]

Hi!
This has probaly been asked before, in fact I'm sure it has, but would a very find grade of Pyrodex work in a flintloc?.If you were to ground pyrodex into an almost flour type powder, would it be able to prodcue a reliable source of ignition.

Has anyone tried it?

Thanks,

Duke :thumbsup:

Thankyou

 

[Mike Brooks]

Ain't gonna work.

 

[dukewellington]

I thought that because itwould be so fine a spark would be sufficent to ignite it.

 

[Billnpatti]

The grade of Pyrodex is not the issue when dealing with a flintlock. The problem lies in the chemistry of Pyrodex. Pyrodex has a much higher ignition temperature than black powder. This means that the flash from the pan is just not enough heat to ignite it reliably. The other problem with grinding it very finely, is that you would not change the ignition temperature but you would change the rate of combustion which would result in much higher chamber pressures.

So, here it is in a nutshell: You simply cannot get reliable ignition using Pyrodex or any other substitute in a flintlock rifle. If you cannot get real black powder, you will have to trade your flintlock for a caplock. You can shoot Pyrodex in a caplock quite well. If you simply want to shoot a flintlock and do not want to change to a caplock, you will have to find some black powder somewhere. No way around these facts.

Well, there is a way that you can shoot Pyrodex in your flintlock but you will still have to have some black powder. You can use what are called Duplex loads. To do this, you will add about 10 grains of black powder to your barrel first. Then add your Pyrodex charge (reduced by 10 grains). When you fire, the flash will ignite the black powder which will, in turn, ignite the Pyrodex. This does not get you completely around the need for black powder but will make what precious little that you can get, go further. You are still going to need the real stuff in the pan anyway. Pyrodex won't work there either.

 

[Le Grand]

You could say that making Pyrodex smaller doesn't make it any finer.

 

[Billnpatti]

Agreed!!

 

[tdoor_33]

Hi Duke-

As Billnpatti mentioned, duplex loads do work (I've tried it out of curiosity);

On another occasion, inadvertantly, I used Pyrodex in place of 4F "real" powder for priming. Surprisingly (at least to me), it did ignite and the main charge did go bang. The downside (a big down side) is that most of the shots took maybe a half second or more before firing. It took so long the first time that I had already lowered the gun to about chin level (fortunately still pointing down range)when the main charge ignited. I had just done some work on the lock/gun so it took me several shots before I realised what the problem was and replaced my priming flask with the real stuff.
tdoor

 

[Golfswithwolves]

You could say that making Pyrodex smaller doesn't make it any finer.

:rotf:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

You could say that making Pyrodex smaller doesn't make it any finer.

Ain't that the truth!!! :rotf:

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Pyrodex's only grace was thaat it was classified as a propellant and therefore ddn't have the same restrictions in storage and shipping as real powder. Pyrodex is slightly more corrosive than real stuff. Frankly, there is no reason or advantage to using Pyrodex. Real black will work without any fiddling or duplexing. I still have my original pound of pyrodex from 26 years ago. Used a couple oz of it when I realized it was a joke.

 

[Grenadier1758]

The best instruction I heard on the subject, was that if you wanted to use Pyrodex in your flitlock was to get rid of your flintlock and avoid the problems. Its much better to find black powder. The time and expense of paying the hazmat fees to have black powder shipped to your home is far less aggravating than trying to get Pyrodex to ignite in a flintlock.

 

[Jblk]

The duplex load that Bill wrote about works flawless in my GPR.When I get short on the real stuff I shoot that load.The problem with hunting with it is that it requires more loading time.

 

[Naphtali]

While I use only black powder in my flintlocks and cap lock, I live far from anywhere. In your opinions what is the likelihood that there will be developed within the next two years an ignition-reliable black powder substitute by any manufacturer?

 

[Kentuckywindage]

yes, Pyrodex P WILL work in a flinter but you need real black powder for the pan. I used to load up Pyro P in my kentucky and put some 4f into the pan, turn the rifle sideways and smack it hard so i could fill up the touch hole ( not blocking it!) just to get some real stuff in there and then turn back over, smack again to clear touchhole and charge the pan normally. Worked great in my rifles.

 

[TFoley]

While I use only black powder in my flintlocks and cap lock, I live far from anywhere. In your opinions what is the likelihood that there will be developed within the next two years an ignition-reliable black powder substitute by any manufacturer?

Send me a PM and I'll give you the winning numbers of the State Lottery as well.

tac

 

[Tumblernotch]

I've never ground or otherwise altered any Pyrodex, but a friend gave me a pound a couple of years ago and just for kicks I loaded a blank charge in my flintlock to see of it would work. (Everyone tells me it won't fire and that's the reason I loaded a blank. I didn't want to pull the ball). Anyhoo, I primed with ffffg BP, cocked her and pulled the trigger. It went off with no hang-fire, just like BP. Now, that was the only time I tried it and I can't guarantee that it would do it again, but I can say that you can ignite Pyrodex in a flinter using a BP prime, though I can't attest to its reliability.

I would agree with everyone else that if you want to use a flintlock and are stuck with using Pyrodex for your main charge, I would use a duplex load even if it was just using a few grains of priming powder as a starter, say, no more than 5 grains or so. You don't want to use very much ffffg in your main charge, just enough to ensure ignition. And if you can get it, I would stick with real BP for everything.

 

[Melton Kidd]

Hi!
This has probaly been asked before, in fact I'm sure it has, but would a very find grade of Pyrodex work in a flintloc?.If you were to ground pyrodex into an almost flour type powder, would it be able to prodcue a reliable source of ignition.

Has anyone tried it?

Thanks,

Duke :thumbsup:

Thankyou

Is black powder restricted in the UK?
Mel
signcutter

 

[Dphar]

Hi!
This has probaly been asked before, in fact I'm sure it has, but would a very find grade of Pyrodex work in a flintloc?.If you were to ground pyrodex into an almost flour type powder, would it be able to prodcue a reliable source of ignition.

Has anyone tried it?

Thanks,

Duke :thumbsup:

Thankyou

No it won't.

I would never modify Pyrodex in this manner.

A flintlock needs BP to work. This being the case there is no reason to try Pyrodex.
If you do some research you will find that the maker does not recommend that it be mixed with any other powder, so shooting it in a FL with a BP booster is a bad idea too.

Dan

 

[Zonie]

Quoting Hodgdon:

"Flintlock: To insure proper ignition in flintlock systems, 5 grains of FFFFG priming powder should be placed into the bore prior to loading the main charge of Triple Seven or Pyrodex. Consult the loading data in this brochure..."

The complete quote and more can be found at this link: http://www.hodgdon.com/loading.html

As for grinding Pyrodex up I wouldn't recommend doing that.

First off, it won't lower the 800+ degree F ignition point of that powder.

Second: It would greatly increase the surface area of the powder which would change its burning rate and could cause dangerous pressures if it were used in a barrel.

I can't say I haven't used Pyrodex in my flintlocks.
It wasn't done by choice though. I had the wrong powder in my measuring flask that day at the range.

The results?
Although I was priming with my little pan flask filled with real black powder and I was getting good flashes in the pan it took 3 pan fulls to get the Pyrodex in the barrel to fire.

That's when I looked at the powder that was in my measure and realized it was Pyrodex.

The day wasn't ruined because I also had several Percussion guns with me.

 

[Dphar]

Quoting Hodgdon:

"Flintlock: To insure proper ignition in flintlock systems, 5 grains of FFFFG priming powder should be placed into the bore prior to loading the main charge of Triple Seven or Pyrodex. Consult the loading data in this brochure..."

I fall into BPCR mode at times and its supposedly a no-no in BPCR.
I have never used it in a gun I own.

Dan