drill press to mill conversion

[mattybock]

Please read it all before writing back.
I am poor. I don not have any money.

I plan on being a gunsmith as a profession. I went to college for funeral directing but it turns out that the fact that 40% of all funeral homes in the US are corporate owned and thus are being strangled by the failed economy has basically shot the funeral industry in the head.
My college education is worthless and all of the money I had sunk into it is more or less lost.

I have owned firearms my whole life and it seems that this is the next option.

A small mill at harbor freight is about $600.
I don't have $600. Poverty is a b*tch.

I can afford a $75 drill press and have the time to jimmy it into a mill.

But how to I do this? I know that there is the issue of stability and wear on the press due to the press simply not being made to take side loads.
One fellow said a while back that he tried it and it vibrated so much that he could not cut a straight line.

I'm know I'm going to need a mill vise, which can be had for cheap at harbor freight. But the issue of wear and side loads seems more problematic than I can do alone.
I have never even seen the inner workings of a mill, all of my gunsmith experience has been with hand tools.

Simply put, how can I turn a drill press into a serviceable mill?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Not! It would be easier to use a mill as a drilling press. That is about where the similarities end, IMHO.

A lot of mills are being junked, or sold by shops investing in newer CNC equipment. I recommend that you haunt the used equipment sites, and local auctions to see if you can't buy a milling machine at a price you can afford. A client of mine bought a mill from the machine shop he worked for when it went out of business when this latest recession began a few years ago. I don't know what he paid, but he indicated he got it for less than it was worth to scrap buyers. :hmm:

While you are saving to buy better equipment, keep your day job. Most gunsmiths work part-time for many years, acquiring tools, equipment, skills, and customers, before they can do it full-time. If you don't know the other gunsmiths who live and work around you, its time you introduce yourself to them. They can be a lot of help to you in growing your business, and can keep their eyes and ears out for good deals for you. Same with the local machine shop employees, and owners.

Several years ago, I decided to locate and identify all the gunsmiths within an hour' s drive of my county, and ended up with a list of 23 gunsmiths. Many have died, since I made up that list. But, It was a pleasure to meet all these people, and get to know them on a face to face basis. I run into them occasionally at gun shows, or at shooting ranges and clubs. Many have been invited to be guest speakers at my gun club, informing members of their work, and getting some needed advertising that they can provided services to our members. Members thank us for introducing them to local gunsmiths, since most do not even have phone listings in the local yellow pages.

 

[Birddog6]

I can afford a $75 drill press and have the time to jimmy it into a mill.

Simply put, how can I turn a drill press into a serviceable mill?

You can't. That is like making apples into oranges. Rigging up machines to do work they are not designed to do is only going to produce inferior work & too much time to get the work done, that will ruin the business you are trying to start.

My suggestions is work two full time jobs & save ALL of the money from the second job. When you have the $ to buy the necessary machines & tools, then start doing the gunsmithing work after you get home from the 2nd job.

99% of the gunsmiths I have known, did it because they like working on guns & very few ever made any money from doing it.

Most people are cheap, and I mean Damn Cheap, when it comes to repairing their gun. All the customer sees is the end result, and not the hours of labor or machinery costs it took YOU to get to that end result.... Basically, to them your time is worth nothing.

Good example, a guy came to me wanting me to shorten a stock for him. This meant removing the buttplate, shortening the stock, shortening the patchbox & toeplate, relocated the latching mechanism, fit it all back & then refinishing the stock on a longrifle. I told him $200. He was just shocked & told me he was thinking along the lines of $ 50., as one time he had a recoil pad put on a shotgun for $ 25. :idunno: I said thanks but no thanks & he went off on his merry way. 6 mo later he decides he wants me to do the work..... I guess he can't find anyone to do it for $ 50. I didn't take the job.

Anyway, the long & short of it is Gunsmithing is a great profession, but IMHO it will take you YEARS & YEARS to build it into something you can make a living from, and you won't get there with improvising cheap machines that can't do the job, as that will result in inferior work, and too much time to do the work because you don't have the proper machines & tools to do the work in a reasonable time.

If you do 100 good jobs, 100 guys will know it. If you do ONE bad job, 200 guys will know it.... :idunno:

Keith Lisle

 

[Keb]

As previously stated, You can't.

You could maybe use a router for light mill work.
Now, as for your education. Ever think of taxidermy? I'd think that would be the next step from being a funeral guy. :/

 

And a $75 benchtop drill press isn't even very good as a drill press. The spindle bearings don't have tight enough tolerances for any type of precision work. I agree with the used equipment auction site, for your best deal.

Bill

 

[matt denison]

"I am poor. I don not have any money."

Better get used to it if you want to do gunsmithing.

My first encounter with a gunsmith at Bob Chow's shop and I asked about becomming a 'smith he said, "If you don't mind investing $50,000.00 and working until midnight 6 days a week for ten dollars an hour then go for it".

Another told me, " I inhereted a million bucks when uncle Charlie died, I kept on fixing guns until that was gone too".

Unless you specialize at something and are extremely good at it you can barely make a living smithing. Listen to what Birdog says, people in general are cheapskates, don't like to invest more money into their guns. Look at the majority of posts on this forum where guys are doing it themselves on the cheap.

Think of this: There are NO young gunsmiths. It takes years and years to learn the skills and aquire the tools and knowledge to work on the huge variety of guns out there, modern and traditional. Go to college to learn to be a system analyst (whatever that is) and it takes four years. You get a job working for an insurance company for $45,000 plus benefits. Learn to be a gunsmith and plan on 20. Or more. You will work for room and board plus a few bucks for beer and tobacco.

Gunsmithing is a calling, not a backup plan B.

 

[sc45-70]

Several years ago a friend of mine tried to use his drillpress as a milling machine.
With in an hour he broke the chuck off of the spindle.
The Jacobs taper that holds the chuck to the spindle will not handle side load pressure! Besides that the spindle is too small, the bearings are too light and a cheap drill press is not rigid enough to take side load pressure!

Save your self the headach and save up untill you can afford a real milling machine.

FYI gunsmithing is a hobby not a job!

SC45-70

 

[Kootenai]

Extremely well said laffindog. Look around at all the true craftsman on the various reenactor/longrifle forum. Maybe a handfull get well compensated for their work. Everybody else is doing it because it is a 'calling'.

Do your homework first. Then do a business plan, seriously. Then think about it for six months. If it still feels good go for it.

I would think with the time and money you have wrapped up in funeral services there is a job out there somewhere. You may have to do due dilligence or even volunteer work to get a job, but if you work at it you can find a job in your field. Nobody said it was easy find a job or work. Mostly it is persistance, persistance and persistance.

Mark

 

[Supercracker]

You might look at the Combo machines. I have Smithy Granite Mill/Lathe combo.

They're not cheap but when I got mine got on a list and it was a return or refurbed return. Don't know which. IIRC, it's been a long time, I only paid about half price for it and all the stuff that comes with it.

In the long run it's paid for itself several times over.

 

[Deadeye]

I think your in the right business, not everyone needs gunwork but everyone's gonna die.

 

[Canuck Bob]

I tried it. It failed because of the way the chuck is mounted. As mentioned the spindle does not work with the side loads. Milling causes chatter with the resulting chuck flying off.

I understand poor well. My advice is find any job and do your gunsmithing after hours to realize your goal. I don't know about your education system but if a machinist trade school is doable with assistance that might help. Good luck and persevere.

 

[jerrywh]

You can't mill on a drill press. Hundreds have tried. By the time you convert you could have bought a drill mill.

 

[newtewsmoke]

just out of curiosity, where are you plannning to learn gunsmithing? Im asking cuz several years ago I looked into gunsmithing pretty seriously and then axed the idea because I felt that to really do it right I'd need to attend a school, 2 yrs and relocating, wasnt going to happen! wasnt too impressed with those mail order do it yourself courses either. Also once certified, in order to work on guns an FFL and insurance is required if i remember right.

 

[ron ward]

i have done that for years and it can be done with limitations.....
biggest limitation is that it won't work at all with any metals harder than brass or aluminum and then only with very light cuts and small (1/4") diameter end or ball mills. that said, it is very limited for the purposes discussed on a forum about building guns. probably it's best use is to do rough inletting on stock.... for that purpose, a good drill press, with a cross-slide vice will work wonderfully and save lots of time.
but as to using one for anything other than wood, brass, magnesium or aluminum.... no way, no how, they're just not rigid enough and the flexing will break cutters left and right.
my main use, besides rough inletting gunstocks is for accurately building jigs and fixtures for my wood working and brass parts for the weight driven wooden clock movements i make occasionaly.

 

[4570tc]

Where are you planning on going to school? I JUST checked PA. school of gun smithing in Pittsburgh.
The cost of this school is $27,800, and the govt.funding want NOTHING to do with the program!! I know I tried! They will tell you that there are no jobs for a gunsmith?

 

[juancho]

Like they say, 'smithing would be plan D or Z.Working at Wolimart may be more rewarding if not as much fun.
But, having said that, if you want it that bad...
You'll fid the way to do it, just not with some china drill press.If all you can afford is 75 buck, spend it on good hand tools.

 

[44-henry]

As has been said it is a bad idea to try and convert the drill press into a mill. Some years back a fellow named Dave Gingery wrote a series of detailed shop manuals on building a machine shop from scrap. His series started with a home built foundry for melting aluminum, than progressed to a metal lathe which he built with nothing more complicated than a hand drill and caliper. Once the lathe was done it was used to make parts for the next project which was a metal shaper, following the shaper he built a horizontal milling machine, than a drill press and lastly went back and built accessories for all the machines. It was quite an ambitious project to be sure, but proven. I have personally seen versions of the lathe and the shaper, but I have never seen the working mill. Both the shaper and the lathe were good working machines from what I saw and could certainly do precision work.

Personally I would look around on the used market and see what you can find. I purchased a Jet 15 mill drill a few years back for less than $200 and while not a Bridgeport, it is leaps and bounds ahead of the bench top mills and home built drill press to mill conversions.

Also consider that even if you do cobble a mill together you are still going to likely end up buying many accessories (I doubt you will make them all) and this is where the real costs start accumulating.

 

[Zonie]

As the others have said, gunsmithing is a poor way to make a living.

Building custom muzzleloaders is also a poor way to make a living.

I don't know about the funeral business except to say my last dealings with them told me that their doing very well off of what is often a captive clientele. Of course you have to have good "people skills".

You didn't say if you completed your college education and received a degree.

I mention this because a degree to many "Human Resources" people signifies that you are the type of person to complete an arduous task.

If you haven't received your college degree, that should be your first goal.

Pay particular attention to the areas of finance, business principles and accounting.
These can be useful in any business.

 

[mattybock]

That's just it, haus. I can't afford! I have no day job anymore after getting laid off.
Around South East Dallas there was one gunsmith, just one, named Rudy and he has long since retired from gunsmithing.
In this little backwoods town bargains are not to be had, auctions do not exist.
There are gun sellers out there, but I doubt that the guy at the pawn shop knows diddly about gunsmithing.
In the modern day gunsmithing is a very tight market with very few people. It's not like it once was.

 

[mattybock]

But is it possible? And if so- how?

Not a shot at ya, but I'm guessing you're a speck older than me (I'm in my 20s), and have had more time to acquire a nest egg, the finer things, a stable home, and contacts with the same. I'm guessing you didn't get out of college full disillusionment and looking at a real unemployment rate of around 20% with one job opening getting 15 applicants.

I haven't. I'm unemployed and near broke. It's a fine thing to say to work 2 full time jobs, but in reality one part time job in today's world is about as common as 50 cent a pound unicorn steak.
I know gunsmiths don't make much cash, and that's fine. Average seems to be real low.

Some is better than none. I would gladly have taken the job for $100 and I need to make a mill from a drill press.