Double Ball Load .50 T/C Hawken

[necchi]

Yeah it was Bill.
I couldn't find it in any T/C manual as he stated it came from either.
When I asked where it actually came from he didn't respond.
While double ball loads are obviously a viable option, I don't see where any gun manufacturer will recomend blocking a load with another ball.
Way too much liability for any maker.

 

[nkbj]

Oh wow. Wonder what a double ball load with the .40 GM barrel on the Renegade would do. Obviously transform it into an .80. Won't worry much about blowing it up but don't think I'll try making it a 1.2. That would be over 270 grains of lead, not too much.

 

[roundball]

Per T/C’s Manual:

1 .45cal PRB w/110grns Goex 2F = 2158 MV and 1314 ME (should be close for 100grns 3F)

2 .45cal PRBs w/100grns 3F = 1824 MV and 'combined' ME = 1892

========================================================

1 .50cal PRB w/110grns 2F = 2135 MV and 1772 ME

2 .50cal PRBs w/100grns 2F = 1705 MV and 'combined' ME = 2401

 

[necchi]

Which manual is that?

 

[RC]

hmm wonder how much that changes with only top ball patched? jus wonderin, like said, only do it for trackin..........but may make interestin woodswalk shot... :hmm:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Now what do they show in those calibers for a single patched ball with the same charge?


Also - we've solved the old "sprue down or sprue up?" dilema. One each!

 

[RC]

Now what do they show in those calibers for a single patched ball with the same charge?

45cal PRB w/110grns Goex 2F = 2158 MV and 1314 ME (should be close for 100grns 3F)

2 .45cal PRBs w/100grns 3F = 1824 MV and 'combined' ME = 1892

========================================================

1 .50cal PRB w/110grns 2F = 2135 MV and 1772 ME

2 .50cal PRBs w/100grns 2F = 1705 MV and 'combined' ME = 2401

 

[Stumpkiller]

But there's a 10% difference in the charges. We need 100 gr of Xfg vs. 100 gr of Xfg with the only variable being the number of balls.

 

[RC]

ahhhhh yes I see...overlooked that .. :redface: guess we;ll have to wait fer Roundball to test....course, his tags is all full,,,an he'll be thinkin on this,,,,an thinkin on it,,,an hopin it gets him to the range quicker,,so we'll know fer sure! it'll be interesting! :wink:

 

[roundball]

I don't understand the point of the "10% difference in charges" comment?

The question was asked about the MV and ME of double ball loads and I posted the chart that shows that.
I simply also added a line item from T/C's regular single ball chart as sort of a reference comparison.
If the double ball loads had another 10grns of powder, its pretty safe to assume the MV & ME would be even higher.

T/C's data is pretty clear...double ball loads still have significant velocity and certainly significant energy compared to the single ball data I also included in spite of doubling the projectile weight.

And as I said earlier, the double ball MV & ME is huge at typical close range shots hunting in heavy woods/cover.

 

[necchi]

T/C's data is pretty clear

Which T/C manual is that from?

 

[RC]

:hmm: I'm not good at this but why did they show results for 110gr w/ single ball.. then a 100 gr w/ two ball..(if i'm readin right?)
why not both at 100 or 110?
.
although I'm sure a double ball load would do its job easily... :thumbsup:

 

[Stumpkiller]

It shows 110 gr for a .45 single PRB and 100 gr for the PRBs (plural). So it's not just the effect of the double ball but also the 10% difference in powder. Same with the .50 They use 10 gr more with the single ball.

We need what they show elsewhere in the pamphlet for the .50 Hawken with 100 gr FFg and a single lead ball.

Just looking for raw data. I'm open minded as to what the concept works out to.

 

[123.DieselBenz]

The way I see . . . from way over here . . . is that the 110gr load for a single RB is max, but because of a heavier load (2 RB's) that has to be reduced to 100 grains of powder, to keep the barrel the proper shape :wink:

Weren't some people recently questioning a 80gr load in a .45? Seems at least with TC they don't have a problem endorsing more . . . of course a newer manual will not have that double load in it, nor probably that much powder . . . Lawyers . . .

 

[roundball]

:hmm: I'm not good at this but why did they show results for 110gr w/ single ball.. then a 100 gr w/ two ball..(if i'm readin right?)
why not both at 100 or 110?
.
although I'm sure a double ball load would do its job easily... :thumbsup:

THEY didn't...as I said, I added the line item about a single ball load just so you'd have something to compare it to...I used the 110grn listing because it was T/C's max load for a PRB in those calibers just because....could have listed 100grns, could have listed 80grns, etc.
T/C's load data chart is in their manual on their website, TCArms.com

When they listed their double ball load, they only listed one loading...100grns...its the page I posted for you.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Granted. And obviously the presure is jumping to get more ME with an added ball (otherwise we'd all shoot a handfull of round balls rather than conicals). I just am curious as to how much with all else equal.

We got two kids arguing one is taller, but they should test it in bare feet - not with one standing on a book whether it the taller or the shorter kid.

 

[roundball]

We need what they show elsewhere in the pamphlet for the .50 Hawken with 100 gr FFg and a single lead ball.

.50cal / 100grns 2F / 2052 MV / 1637 ME

Makes the double ball load look even more impressive

 

[RC]

Thank you RB! think the double would easily do the job...but..we gots to work with one,,,the law ya know, however once blood is drawn! recover is #1

:thumbsup:

 

[Stumpkiller]

There we go. So if the lead is doubled (178 grs to 356 gr = up 100%) and the velocity is only down to 1,705 fps (347 fps drop = 17% of 2,052 fps), but the muzzle energy is jumping 47% from 1,637 to 2,401 ft lbs, then it's a pretty safe bet the pressure increase is where it's picking up the added energy.

I'll admit - it's a result I didn't anticipate and I was wrong from a lethality standpoint.

I guess if one of those two balls go where you aim it's worth doing (where legal). Be a pain to regulate fixed sights for that and try to switch back and forth between one and two balls.

You also want to make sure when you set a patched ball on top of a prior that the compressed air pressure doesn't cause it to follow the rammer back out a ways. That's a barrel obstruction first class.

 

[Rat Trapper]

Weren't some people recently questioning a 80gr load in a .45? Seems at least with TC they don't have a problem endorsing more . . . of course a newer manual will not have that double load in it, nor probably that much powder . . . Lawyers . . .[/quote]

It's cause I think some do more shooting with the key board, than at the range.