Double Ball Load .50 T/C Hawken

[dc7x64]

Tried the double ball method as discussed in an earlier post. Could not find that post. I short started both patched round balls over 90 Gr. of Goex 2F. And seated them as one projectile (someone suggested that!) Balls hit paper about 3-4" lower than standard single ball load, snake-eyes 1.0" between center of each ball. Definitely a change in felt recoil. Man that would be nasty medicine on any creature :shocked2: Range was 50 yds off hand.

 

[BrownBear]

That's really good to hear! Thanks for the report.

I've been meaning to try it with a 58 cal. I'd only hunt with one ball, but when the bear sign got too thick, I kinda like the math: Two 280 grain balls adds up to 560 grains of lead in my pea brain.

 

[flintriflesmith]

I've been using a two ball load for deer hunting in a .50 caliber flintlock longrifle since about 1970. (I also used .60 and .62 cal rifles with a single ball during those same years. Guess I like to throw a lot of lead since a RB rifle doesn't get a lot of velocity.)

I load 110 grains of FFG and use 2 .490 balls with .018-.022 patching depending on the rifle. I load the first ball fully, then the second and never had any problems with the second ball not remaining seated.

The last buck I killed with this load was shot coming straight toward me at about 25 yards. The balls entered through one hole just above the breast bone and one exited right by the anus --- the other lodged in the right ham.

Frontiersman and Indian fighter William Whitley of KY was believed by his peers to use a two ball load in the battle where he was killed. His rifle survives and, as best I can remember, it is about 43-45 caliber.
Gary

 

[Rifleman1776]

The loading technique you describe is the proper way, if you are going to load two.
But, I have to wonder: Why?
Does two balls kill 'em twice as ded?
Pointless, IMHO.

 

[roundball]

"...that would be nasty medicine on any creature..."

No question about it...and at typical short range woods shot distances there would still be plenty of penetration...so you'd let the air out of the balloon awfully quick with a pair of .490s going through the heart / lungs simultaneously.

If a larger caliber wasn't available and you were hunting on the edge of a nasty swamp that you didn't want him to get into, a double ball .50cal should anchor him quicker.

 

[rafterob]

Thanks for the report, have always been interested in trying that (on purpose) :wink: I have shot a few double loads in the past couple years, powder and ball, as a result of talking too much.They don't group real well like that. I know some states specify "single projectile" for muzzleloading season so I would be aware of the local laws when hunting.

 

[ny griz]

:idunno: When you double ball with patch are you patching both balls? :idunno: Griz

 

[Snow on the Roof]

"I've been using a two ball load for deer hunting in a .50 caliber flintlock longrifle since about 1970."

Don't know about Virgina but in Illijoy this would be considered illegal as regs state "single projectile". your milage may vary....

Snow

 

[Stumpkiller]

Not sure what two balls going slower would be in advantage over one faster and well placed ball.

Whatever spins your wheels.

As Snow said: not legal in some states for hunting (like NY).

 

[roundball]

:idunno: When you double ball with patch are you patching both balls? :idunno: Griz

They must both be patched to keep each ball firmly in place.
The drill is to start one PRB down the length of the short starter, then start the second PRB with the short starter.
That puts them in contact with each other, then seat them both down at the same time.

T/C load manual listed 100grn Goex 2F as the powder charge for the .50cal, and 100grns Goex 3F for the .45cal.
I got very surprisingly accurate results in my range tests.

 

[roundball]

Not sure what two balls going slower would be in advantage over one faster and well placed ball.

Double trauma, double shred, double blood loss...all in the same amount of time...should anchor game quicker.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Not convinced. Same amount of starting energy available shared over two objects. Energy is based on the square of the velocity, so if you have a choice between upping the mass or the velocity - you get a better investment with velocity.

A hole in each side has as much blood loss as two holes in only one side. Plus, if you perforate both lungs and open a hole through the chest beside each they will collapse. A deer can go a long way on one working lung.

But, it would take some experimenting I guess.

 

[roundball]

Not convinced. Same amount of starting energy available shared over two objects. Energy is based on the square of the velocity, so if you have a choice between upping the mass or the velocity - you get a better investment with velocity.

Dunno...and not trying to convince anybody.
My gut tells me your comment above would be a matter of "is there enough energy" and in my application of it at typical close range woods shots, there would be more than enough energy to drive 2 balls through the internals...same principle as 9 - 00 buckshot into the heart/lung area of a deer at 40yds...open them up to field dress them and the blood just pours/washes out.

A hole in each side has as much blood loss as two holes in only one side.

I believe two holes through internals will create more blood loss to the internal systems where it matters than a single hole. Your comment above might apply to blood loss OUTSIDE the body for better tracking purposes or something.

But, it would take some experimenting I guess.

For sure

 

[flintriflesmith]

"I've been using a two ball load for deer hunting in a .50 caliber flintlock longrifle since about 1970."

Don't know about Virgina but in Illijoy this would be considered illegal as regs state "single projectile". your milage may vary....

Snow

In Virginia the two ball load is banned in the special ML season but not during the regular gun season. Strangly it is allowed in a smoothbore--just two large buckshot!

 

[RC]

I've done it with powder then bare ball then patched ball in a 50...2" apart at 50 yards one ball dead on other usually lower..
you'd think....... :hmm: ..they'd leave the barrel jus as fast with one or two balls?
I've tried it to use in case woundin a deer an trackin...2 gotta be better at a attentive deer..

 

[Stumpkiller]

You don't get somethin for nuttin. If you're getting 1,800 fps with one ball you will get nowhere near as much velocity pushing twice as much weight out the bore with the same powder. Not half, though, because the pressure will be much greater.

And with buckshot - the load still weighs the same whether it's 9 .30" balls or 280 #6 shot or one .690" ball: about 1-1/4 ounce.

But, like I said, I don't know and would have to toy around. If you're getting success by all means charge on. :hatsoff:

 

[RC]

:hmm: well, yer probably right,,but if I shoot an deer looks to have been hit, I load one ball w/o patch then one with...an get to trackin...seems to work on 4 guns I've tried it on....even the smoothie! :shocked2: :haha:
usually jus shoot to empty gun...but after shootin that deer 2 years ago, loadin 2 balls,,an findin deer within 50 yds... I pulled the ball..2 62's is lots of lead! :haha:

 

[larry wv]

Wish somebody would check the velocity difference between a single prb and two balls with the same charge. I would like to try two balls but like an exit hole if at all possible. I think in Wv it is legal. Maybe Kanawha Ranger can read the regs and see how he interprets it Larry Wv

 

[roundball]

I'll be having plenty of time on my hands in retirement after the first of the year, and I'm planning to do a number of things like that.

Will be chronographing all my loads in the long barreled Flintlocks I now have...and double ball loads will be tested in .40/.45/.50cals...will share the results of course but it'll be a while before I get the tests done

 

[Stumpkiller]

I looked through the T/C catalogs and manuals I have and couldn't find the double ball table. Seems I remember someone posted a scan of such a thing (Bill?) and that would give a charge & velocity for some comparison. Maybe it was a version of the Lyman Handbook?

I never played with it as NY regulations only allow for a single projectile to be used on big game. And even so, one good shot ruins less meat. :haha: