Cook Bros. lock problem

[Zonie]

When you modify the hole the sear arm goes into, remove wood from the upper half of the hole, so the sear arm can travel further upward than it presently can.

Taking a little wood out of that hole will not weaken the stock any and it just might fix the problem.

The sear arm hanging up in the hole might be caused because the hole is not deep enough to clear the end of the arm.

More than a few times, when building a longrifle I have found that the hole made in a pre-carved stock is too shallow so the lock sear arm hangs up when the lock is installed.

Factory made guns being what they are could also suffer from this problem.

To fix this problem, I drill the hole slightly deeper. It usually doesn't take much wood removal.

Filing off a 16th inch of the sear arm end can also fix the problem, if it exists.

Usually, the sear arm is a lot longer than it needs to be to fully engage with the blade on the trigger.

 

[Scota4570]

To determine if you have binding on the wood, put some black marker on the metal, install the lock, try it, and see if you get a transfer.

 

[snubnose57]

The sear arm is OK. I wonder if someone shortened the sear tip. From full cock, no matter how hard or how fast you pull the trigger, it falls to half cock. As far as working on the tumbler , what tools do I need? I have been using an Arkansas stone, and I don't think I am even putting a dent into it. It may be that I need an original Armisport tumbler and sear, but would have to back in time to find them.

 

[Trot]

Lodgewood offers a Euroarms lock repair service. They recut the tumbler and fit and install a new sear. Might be worth looking into.

 

[Artificer]

I live in Fort Worth. Looked all over the internet for an Euroarms tumbler, no luck. Guess I will have to work with what I have. I took a Dremmel all around the hole for the sear arm, no problem there. I am using needlenose vise grips to remove the sear spring, is there a better way or tool for this?

First on the Sear Spring. This spring is not that strong and the lower leg puts tension directly on top of the sear arm. Are we talking about the same spring? (Just want to make sure you are not referring to the main spring.)

As to the correct angle of the full cock notch, I would like to refer you to Figure 2 where on the left drawing of the entire Tumbler, it shows the angle of the full cock notch directly perpendicular to the center of the Tumbler's shaft. I don't expect it to be that way on your tumbler, but this is the furthest forward the full cock notch should angle as it goes from the body of the tumbler outwards. Figure 2.1 shows this same angle as "normal." Figure 2.1 "line B" shows the notch angling backwards and it probably is like that on your full cock notch.

Figure 2.1 "line A" shows the notch angling forward and if yours is like this, then that is part of your problem. The full cock notch angling forward will not engage the sear face correctly and if far enough forward, will allow the sear to slip out of the notch under sear spring pressure alone or the sear face may not even hold the tumbler at full cock.

I'm leery of pointing out Figure 2.2, because if the notch is perpendicular to the tumbler shaft, I don't agree with modifying the notch that way. However, it does show the full cock notch angle going backwards that is commonly what you find on these tumblers.

The point of me talking about the Figure mentioned in the link is that the angle of the notch should be either as "Normal" or angling backwards as shown in "line B" of Figure 2.1. Please inform us if the full cock notch on your sear looks like either of these two illustrations.

Since you live in Fort Worth, that is part of the Deep South region of the North South Skirmish Association. There is a contact page in the following link where you can contact them to see who is the closest person to you who knows how to work on these guns. Most NSSA Teams know someone in their area who works on these guns. I would not be surprised if they welcome you to attend a shoot as well, though you don't have to be interested in shooting in matches or joining a team to ask some questions.
http://www.deepsouthnssa.com/home.html

Gus

 

[snubnose57]

Thanks again , but I do not see the lock pictures.
Also, thanks for the Lodgewood info, if the price is not too bad. As to the springs, I am using a main spring vise, but that sear spring is a little stiff also, but I never heard of a sear spring vise either.

 

[Artificer]

The sear arm is OK. I wonder if someone shortened the sear tip. From full cock, no matter how hard or how fast you pull the trigger, it falls to half cock. As far as working on the tumbler , what tools do I need? I have been using an Arkansas stone, and I don't think I am even putting a dent into it. It may be that I need an original Armisport tumbler and sear, but would have to back in time to find them.

If you are using an Arkansas stone to cut down the half cock notch, then it will take forever and a day to do the work. I use small needle file type diamond impregnated files to do the majority of metal removal, one flat and the other triangular. Then I use other fine files to smooth that surface, then finally India and Hard Arkansas stones.

If you don't have diamond impregnated “needle” files to cut through the hardened surface of the half cock notch, you can wrap small files with 180 or 220 Grit Emory Cloth (sand paper for metal) and use that to at least cut through the hardened surface of the metal.

NSSA Skirmishers sometimes stockpile parts and or do gunsmithing on these locks and that is part of the reason I suggested contacting the NSSA in my reply above. Even if there is no one who works on these guns anywhere close to you, it still is worth asking those who may know these kind of gunsmiths or advanced hobbyists in your general area. One of the VERY BEST gunsmiths for Civil War Smith Carbines I ever ran across was not a gunsmith at all, but an advanced hobbyist.

I suggested trying to find someone local or in your general area to assist you, because I know from a lot of experience working on these locks/guns that everything might seem fine with the lock outside the stock, but the trigger pull changes or sometimes other problems show up when the lock is put in the stock and tightened down "just snug."

However, if there is no one in your general area to assist you and you find you cannot do it yourself, then I agree with trot that it may be best to contact Lodgewood Mfg. for the service they have mentioned in this link.
http://www.lodgewood.com/Euroarms-Enfield-Tumbler-CNC-Machined-and-Hardened-_p_328.html

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Thanks again , but I do not see the lock pictures.
Also, thanks for the Lodgewood info, if the price is not too bad. As to the springs, I am using a main spring vise, but that sear spring is a little stiff also, but I never heard of a sear spring vise either.

OOOPPSS!!! Sorry, forgot to add the link:
http://www.nwtskirmisher.com/useful-locks.shtml

Gus

 

[Artificer]

The way to remove the sear spring is to unscrew the sear screw a few turns, use the tip of a screwdriver under the elbow of the spring and pry up until the bottom lug of the spring comes free from the notch in the lock plate. The spring will "jump free" when loose. Then unscrew the sear screw all the way to remove both parts.

To replace it, you put the sear screw through the hole in the spring, screw it in a few turns and press the spring downward and towards the sear, so the bottom lug of the spring enters the little notch in the lock plate. Then tighten the sear screw the rest of the way.

Gus

 

[snubnose57]

Well, I think I really got into something I have no tools to properly repair the lock. Everyone has offered a wealth of advice. Going the Lodgewood route seams the best option for me. THANKS AGAIN for all the help everyone has offered!!

 

[Artificer]

Though sometimes we can offer rather simple fixes for lock problems, it isn't always the case.

I salute you both for the good sense to ask questions and realize your limitations!

Way too many times I have received a lock/gun where the "fix" someone tried to do made things worse and of course more expensive to repair.

Please let us know how things turned out after you get the repaired lock back from Lodgewood.

I think this has been a most informative thread for others who may also have similar problems with their Civil War period locks.

Gus

 

[Gene L]

Me, I'd send to Dixie GW after a phone call to determine who to send it to. The filing and removing metal can't be put back and I'm tool challenged.

I live near Athens, Ga and have seen two Cook and Brother claimed original rifle, or carbines. They looked like they'd been stocked in pecan and were in suspiciously good shape.

 

[Artificer]

OK, I have to first state I have known the owner of Lodgewood Mfg, Inc. very well since the early 80's, if not before. When I worked the NSSA Spring and Fall Nationals, he used to refer a bunch of people to have me work their guns there. I have also bought and sold things to them over the years. That said, I have no business partnership or any kind of direct relationship with them.

I would not be at all surprised if someone called Dixie with this problem, that they might/would refer the customer to Lodgewood. They also came to the NSSA National Shoots and many of their folks knew the Lodgewood crew and vice versa.

Gus

 

[snubnose57]

Well, just waiting for the funds to send in for repair, may be having a yard sale in a couple of weeks. Retirement is great, but this fixed income ain't all it's cracked up to be. Just hope sending it in for repairs solves the problem. New sear-$25, $65 total if the tumbler needs work, seems a fair price to me. Will reply with the results, but may be a few weeks down the road.