CO Tresspass Laws

[zimmerstutzen]

Here in Pennsylvania we have about the most lenient trespass laws in the country and the LEO's most reluctant to enforce the trespass law.
Under our law, a landowner can even tell the wildlife conservation officer NO! and it can be a misdemeanor and jail time to enter the property after being told NO. By state law, WCO's are not permitted to take part in ownership of game disputes.

I have had problems with vandalism and trespassing from a neighboring family. They wanted to trail a deer, they claimed was hit, across my property. Told them no. I got a call from a deputy WCO about it. Invited him out to see where the idiots had spiked my largest cherry tree putting in a home made tree stand, and that they put up a tree stand ten feet off the property overlooking my land and they cut shooting lanes on my property. I informed him of the certified letter I wrote telling them to stay off the property. Told the officer the deer is now coyote bait. That's where it ended.

The 19 yr old that alledgedly shot the deer has had three underage drinking offenses and two assault charges for beating up girlfriends. No way is that scum ever polluting my soil with his foot prints.

 

[paulvallandigham]

You are technically correct, about an officer not having the authority to give you permission to enter someones property against his will, to search for your deer or game. However, the Officer has the right to enter that man's land to "Investigate" a possible game violation, and he has the authority to "deputize" you and others to help him "remove the evidence", since its too heavy to lift himself, into a vehicle, and he rarely has any back-up help from his department.

Some officers will help you, , and some use the law as their excuse not to help. Call the department and Ask for the help. Most officers I know don't like land owners who won't let hunters go on their land to retrieve a down deer. He won't let you take guns with you, or hunt the animal armed, but he will have you find and follow the trail of the deer to find it, and if its down, let you help in removing it from that landowner's property.

I know one officer who hinted to a blustering land owner that he would be charged with taking deer without a permit, if he tried to take the deer for his own use, now that the officer knew where the dead deer was, and would be back daily to check on it. That's EXACTLY why the landowner didn't want the hunters to retrieve the deer, and he backed down rather quickly at that point.

I was also involved in another case where a non-hunting land owner was allowing his dogs to chase down and kill deer, and then he would take whatever meat the dogs didn't ruin, and put it in his freezer for his own use. When the dogs attacked some hunters trying to retrieve their deer from a river, on property more than 1/2 mile from this man's land, and they attacked the hunters, the dogs were shot and killed by the hunters. The dog owner called the sheriff, who did NOT arrest the hunter, but a Conservation officer did issue a ticket. It was Dismissed when I took the case to jury trial. The Sheriff's deputies were going to support my clients.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

You're the one that brought up friends going on private land to help their buddy find a wounded animal. You're the one who said to leave the guns behind.

I simple asked where would they leave the guns. Would you leave your gun behind?

Don't talk to me like i'm 10 years old. I don't need any condescending know it alls in my life.

I don't have these problems. I hunt alone, and I hunt public property and know where it is. When I do go on private land I have permission, because I cleared Coyotes for them.

 

[hoochiepapa]

Absolutely right, Mike. We knew a guy that lost all the meat of a 6x6 bull because the land owner stalled so long in letting him and the CO in. They'll get you one way or another. :cursing:

 

[Dave K]

Sorry Capper, if you are on public land, what is the problem? Yes, I must have misread your post. I thought you were talking about going onto private property as the title to this thread says: CO Tresspass Laws. I am editing this to see where I went astray. Then I came to your post no.Post#924930 and I guess I don't know how else to read it other than what it says. Where did you change and say that you were on public ground and not going onto private ground?

As far as leaving a gun someplace, that opens up a whole new list of "what if's".Put in the truck, hide it under some brush, leave some guy to handle them, be careful that is a LEO sees him with multiple guns and the law there only permits him to have one gun. That is why I suggested you talk to those that enforce the law. I can't understand how it is that difficult.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Maybe you better read the thread. I never said I was going on private land. (without permission)

In the beginning of the thread I was backing up greenmtnboy. He's a friend. After that I was asking questions to understand the law better, because there seems to be some confusion in this thread. I even made one post that said I probably miss hunting some public land, because i'm so cautious to stay away from private land. It's hard to define here. Owners don't need to mark it, and maps are vague sometimes. Even the CO has a hard time figuring out the private land in some areas.

Everything isn't black and white like you seem to preach.

I picked up on leaving guns behind. Who in their right mind would do that? It's not an honest world. I did say what if the truck/camp was miles away. What do you do with the gun?

I'm done here. It's going nowhere. In 55 years of hunting i've never been stopped for breaking the law. I don't think I need any advice at this point.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

It's easy (especially on the 'net :shocked2: ) to thump our bibles, law books and whatever book of ethics you might choose to follow. After all, we are mostly anonymous and many feel that cloak of anonymity allows them to say whatever pleases them.

I subscribe to the adage; "those who matter don't care and those who care don't matter"

I am in full agreement.
For every law written there is an exception to that law, thats all I was trying to get across.
Respecting our game animals is first and for most, most imporant in my book.
I would be devistated losing any critter do to a black and white mentality.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

The Local DOW went to the land owner and explained the non waisting law and the animal was harvested.

This is what you misqoted me on

 

[Dave K]

2/07/10 03:27 PM - Post#924930

In response to marmotslayer

It's not always easy to find the owner. They don't all live on their property.

This is your post, the one I directed you to in my last post, so you can read for yourself you are talking about private ground. So as you say, there is allot of confusion in this post. If you care to, please read all of my posts. I never said it in black and white. I always said to talk to the law. Laws, as I know it, are in black and white. It is the lawyers that you hire to help you through it and find the gray areas.

Many people make it though a whole lifetime doing what they want. It doesn't make it right, it only means they are lucky. You don't need me to tell you that. I have stood in the middle of private ground and had a hunter tell me he has been hunting there for 20+yrs. Well, for 20+yrs. then, he has been trespassing and now he got caught. The very next year, he was with 4 others in the same area. When talked to, and they all hand hunting tools, they claimed to have wounded a deer and were tracking it. When asked where the trail was I would help, they stuttered and said they lost it. There was fresh SNOW on the ground! They told the rest of their story to the judge. They were all charged with hunting without permission, since they all had those hunting tools. I was answering and hopefully helping those who ask about going onto private ground without permission. Again, check the laws, but it is illegal and no LEO can force an owner to grant you permission.

I didn't try to get this into an argument, so I will repeat myself. If you have a question on your rights, see an officer of the law. Better to know before hand, than after the fact. :v

 

[Pete Gaimari]

That was a simple statement on finding property owners. It just directed to the problem in general.

I know owners are hard to find for two reasons. To find them to see if they have a Coyote problem. If they do I offer myself to clear them out.

I'm also a fly fisherman who fishes small creeks. A lot of creeks run through private property. I ask permission to fish the creek on their property. I've never had one say no to me.

I have never ever had to contact an owner for one of my shot animals going on their property. two reasons for that. I don't shoot an animal close to private property, and two...i'm careful with my shots and they don't run that far. If at all.

I try to make friends with land owners. Not enemies.

 

[Dave K]

Yes, the problems with computers. No body language, no understandings that lead to misunderstandings. In a 3 dimentional world,somethings don't work all that well for communicating.I also never had problems with landowners. Well, take that back, I did once. The owner gave me permission and I was talking to him up town and telling him what I saw and he then asked what I was doing on his property! I said, uh,when I asked you, you gave me permission. He claimed he never did and I even had witnesses. Regardless, it is his ground, so there is no argument from me. Now, I get written permision. I don't need aggravation, like they don't

The sun is shining brightly on our Ohio snow, so I am headed to the woods with my bow.

 

[hoochiepapa]

Good luck in the Ohio snow. :thumbsup:

 

[longcruise]

In response to marmotslayer

It's not always easy to find the owner. They don't all live on their property.

This is your post, the one I directed you to in my last post, so you can read for yourself you are talking about private ground. So as you say, there is allot of confusion in this post. If you care to, please read all of my posts. I never said it in black and white.

Just for the sake of clarity, I did not mention "black and white" in any of my posts. There was a post from GM boy mentioning his agreement with me in general and the black and white thing was brought up by him. I pretty much agree with him though.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

trespassing is just like unauthorized use of any other property, a type of theft. Same as if I borrowed your lawn tractor without your permission, or helped my self to the rakes and shovels in your garden shed. For reasons of public policy, some states have recovery laws and some regard property rights as more worthy of protection than recovering a deer.

When you have folks sitting in boundary trees hunting over your posted property, they don't deserve to recover the deer. It is a shame to let an animal waste, BUT it is likewise a bigger shame to reward the illegal behavior of those who trespass so flagrantly.

My personal practice is to permit a hunter to recover the first deer. After that they are denied the chance to recover the deer. I'd rather it be coyote bait, than reward their poor hunting skills or intentionally hunting property lines.

 

[Dave K]

Last year, during our Ml'er season, our non-hunting neighbor, decided to use our farm as a play ground for his snowmobile. He didn't travel the edge near the road, he buzzed all over the farm. Now, my son in-law and me had been in a ground blind since before sun up. Now at 4pm. this yahoo, decides to ruin my day. It was the 2nd time in 2 days. When I went to his door, he asked me where the property line was! I said the fence was it, you should know, if you have lived here for 20 yrs.! This is a warning I told him, the next time, the law will be talking to you. Then 3 weeks ago, right at "deer" time, I see some one still hunting through the woods, with an arrow on the string. Quietly I stalked up to him (I have neuropathy and wouldn't be able to catch him, if he ran) When I was within 20yds. I let him have it. It was this same guys 15yr. old son and his 17yr. old brother! They of course couldn't remember where the property line was either. I again, repeated the fence was it and both of you guys have lived your whole life here, you know exactly where it is. Again, I told these boys, I would not press charges, but the next time, the law doesn't even have to ask me. Yes, I called the law and the law talked to them. Not that it makes any difference here, but several years ago, a family member went to jail for murder. Isn't there enough grief in this families life?

Does a trespasser know what danger he is putting everyone in? There is no hunter orange on these guys and they had pushed some deer out ahead of them, do they realize they could be shot? Do they realize they could have shot at me? When they are not where they have permission to be, it is like coming home and finding an armed criminal in your kitchen. You think you are alone, but all of a sudden, you realize you may be in danger. On public ground, you take it for granted, that there is someone else possibly close by. So you mentally prepare for it.

I am with Zimmerstutzen, no more. I didn't develop my hunting ground for someone to take advantage of my treestands, my food plots, the way I manage the crops the woods itself. You reap what you sow. I used to not like this attitude, but after awhile, you realize that you didn't develop it, it was thrown upon you.

Enough of my rant....... :surrender:

 

[Dave K]

I was a beautiful evening on stand. A little cool at 25ft. though. I am not yet real used to 22ºF. By January, it will seem balmy. :grin:

 

[Pete Gaimari]

25 ft? :idunno:

Did you get a nosebleed?

 

[Dave K]

No, most of mine are between 20 and 25. In this flat land, if you take a look at a woods, you will see that the normal point of vision seems to fall in around 15ft. So you need to get above that and also where the branches of the trees start to clump or you look like a transformer on a power pole. Different areas mean different type trees, different terrain. In pine trees, you don't have to hunt this high. Like anything, experience will teach you about the different areas you hunt.

 

[oletymepreacher]

I avoid the trespass quagmire by hunting in the middle of wilderness areas, and only shoot when I can guarantee a quick kill. Never have had to track a wounded deer or elk that I shot. (YET) Now that Colorado has gotten greedy with nonresident tags, wilderness areas are truly wilderness.

 

[hoochiepapa]

Right on to wilderness!!!