Cleaning my Flintlock Rifle

[Marc Adamchek]

Hey Fellas (and gals) - To clean my hawken percussion, I unhook the barrel and clean it up.

I've got a beautiful .45 G L Jones Flintlock, and I leave the barrel in place when cleaning. Should I be unscrewing the single screw the breech end of the barrel and pulling the barrel out to clean seperately from the rest of the gun?

As you can guess, I'm pretty new to this fantastic sport.

Thanks a bunch for any and all answers - Marc

 

[Stumpkiller]

I don't. I'm guessing there are three or four pins (as opposed to two wedge keys) holding the barrel. Every time you remove them you risk splitting the wood as the pin exits.

I lay mine on towels on the back porch, muzzle slightly down, and keep the vent plugged (either with my gloved thumb or a tight wood plug) as I wipe the bore.

 

[Birddog6]

Probably 101 different ways of doing it. Main thing is it be clean & DRY before ya lube it for storage.. Here is how I do it & have done so for many years with success:

I have shot BP for over 30 years & tried 29 dif ways of cleaning them, this one being the most efficient for me, does the cleanest job & takes me about 15-20 minutes from start to finish to completely clean the gun & put the stuff away. Ya get a rythm of it all after doing it a few times & it don't take long at all. Bout as long as it would to really clean a modern firearm real good.

I use a good healthy squirt of dishwater liquid soap or about 2 oz of non-aerosol Ballistol in a gallon of cold water for the flushing solution. I put the rifle upside down in a cradle & remove the lock & connect the "C" clamp type flush kit & wet a patch, put it on a jag & take it to the breech & then suck the barrel full of the solution. While the barrel is soaking I & clean the lock asm. under faucet with a toothbrush, blow dry with air & or dry with a paper towel & take a tiny screwdriver & work the towel into the cracks & etc., then spray the lock down entirely including the flint, with Ballistol Aerosol & pat dry with a paper towel & set aside.

Back to the rifle in the cradle, I take a cleaning jag & a tight patch, & start swabbing back & forth in full strokes to flush the barrel real good for about 20 strokes. Change patches & do it again, change patches and do it again til I am sure it is clean. Then I take the jag off & put on a breech scraper & check for any fouling. Scrape if necessary & if there is any fouling I put on a Breech Brush & brush the breech. Go back to the jag & wet patch & flush again. Then I swab with a dry patch a time or two. I wad up 2 patchs & put them in the bore & shove them to the breech with the jag & hold it there tight with the ramrod & then take a worm & pull it & check it for moisture & fouling. Then I do 2 more. And 2 more if necessary to be SURE the bore is dry.

When dry, I squirt a lil Ballistol Non-Aerosol in the barrel from a pump spray bottle & wet a patch real wet with same Ballistol & again swab & force some out the vent.

When I am satisfied it is lubed real good, I install the lock & close the frizzen on a dry patch so any excess Ballistol will run out the vent & be absorbed in the patch at the frizzen.

You can use non-aerosol BreakFree as a bore preservative also, which I used before Ballistol & it works good also. I have been using the Ballistol Non-Aerosol in the bore for about 7 years now on all my ML rifles and have had no problems at all with it.

(Also the Ballistol Aerosol is a real good wife repellant, she comes a snooping into the gun room wanting some "honey-do" stuff ?? When ya hear he coming your way just spray a lil of the Ballistol aerosol into the air toward the door & it will ward her off !!)


Some tell me I go to too much detail, I don't know. I do know I don't have any rust in the bores of my rifles, so it must work. I do all the percussion & halfstocks the same way now, just use a different hose attachment on the nipple.

It is IMPERATIVE that you get ALL of the moisture out of the barrel and at the breech before you put the bore rust inhibitor in the bore, regardless of what you use here. (If you incur a rusting problem, it will be because you didn't get the moisture out & left it trapped under the oil.)

It is IMPERATIVE that you Reswab the bore the 1st day & the 2rd day after cleaning, just to be sure you got it all lubed good & etc.

:results:

Good Luck & Hope ya Love the sport as we do !

Birddog6

 

Isn't that a jaeger I see there on the cleaning rack?

 

[Rat]

Isn't that a Jaeger...!! Ha ha what else? Just kidding I know the Birddog cooks up other things besides Jaegers, but he could be, "the JaegerMaster"!!!

I'll just put my plug in and mention that a rifle, flintlock or otherwise can be cleaned with damp patches on a jag of Hoppe's #9+ and Kroil, or barristol perhaps (have not tried it) in which case you need not get any water inside the gun or have to pump water in and out with any kind of flushing device.

:imo:

But no, I would not remove a pinned barrel on a regular basis for cleaning.

Rat

 

[seattlesteve]

I'm a new flinter and I have found that if you ask 20 different flinters how to clean a rifle, you will get 20 different answers.

I have been using a solvent-only approach because my first mentor says it's impossible to get the barrel dry if you use water and you always get some rust. However, it is currently taking me over an hour to clean my rifle and I use a million cleaning patches. So I am thinking about changing to the old fashioned soap and water method.

I have one of those C-clamp style flush kits, but it doesn't work on my Traditions Pennsylvania rifle because it has a screwdriver slot in the touch hole liner and the water runs out.

I talked to Bill Shipman, the master gun builder who is making a custom Lancaster rifle for me (to be delivered sometime next summer) and he recommends taking the barrel off the rifle! I know that flies in the face of the standard advice, but Shipman has been building rifles for over 30 years and he certainly knows what he's doing. Check out this gallery of his work:

http://www.billshipman.com/Gallery_Index.htm

Here is what Bill told me about cleaning a flintlock:

"Try cleaning with water and see which you like better. Put the breech of the barrel in a bucket of hot soapy water and pump the water up and down the barrel with your cleaning rod and patched jag. Rinse with hot water, dry and oil. You're flushing the barrel clean. The only problem I can think of with solvents is that you can't "wipe" a barrel completely clean. Think of the logic. "I use solvent because I can't wipe my barrel dry". If you can't get water out of the barrel with patches, how are you going to get the gunk out. Water evaporates in a hot barrel, fouling attracts moisture. Note you will always get a tinge of rust with a dry patch in a clean barrel. You can't wipe a white cloth down 40" of raw stripped steel and not. This does absoutely no harm. Just oil your barrel after cleaning. A lot of my friends use WD-40 and then a little oil."

"A lot of people firmly believe you never take the barrel out, that it somehow throws off the rifles point of aim. ???? I take my barrel out of the gun every time I'm done shooting it and so do most of the people I used to shoot with. We've won lots of prizes. Wind and light are far more critical to changing your point of aim. Not keeping your back sight level with the target is another and so forth. Some people believe that taking the gun apart changes tensions on the stock such as tigtening the tang bolt a little more or less. However, no matter how we finish a gun the wood will expand and contract constanty in periods of humidity and dry winters indoors which creates far more stresses. Also some rifles are hard to take apart because of indifferent workmanship. For instance the forestock pins are not on elongated slots that alow for wood changes but merely drilled through a tab or even the very bottom of the barrel so they jam. Instead of sliding out with a little tap, you can't pound them out. Talk about stresses. Always take the lock and lock bolts out first. The forward bolt often passes through a notch in the breechplug. Scrub your lock with soapy water and rinse with very hot water and oil or spray with WD 40 after you dry it off."

So this is the cleaning method I am gong to try next.

I'm a little worried about knocking out the pins and pulling the barrel off, but if Bill Shipman says it's OK,
I believe him.

:m2c:

 

[Birddog6]

Oh.... ya caught that huh ? Yes, that is an American Jaeger in .58 cal that I build a while back & had just been test firing it before shipping. That is one fine shooting rifle for sure. First 3 shots grouped 5/8" at 25 yards. 2nd 3 shots grouped 1" at 50 yards...... No load work at all, just the first 6 shots. This rifle is owned by Maxiball.

SeattleSteve: If you have a removable vent on the rifle why not remove it & screw in a flushing attachment ? They make one 1/4" for that. (Cain's Ourdoors or MSM) Also, I have a slotted vent on one of the Jaegers I shoot all the time & I clean it with the vent in & use the "C" clamp attachment. Takes careful placement & sometimes it drips a tad but I just lay a rag under the rife. Note that when cleaning in the cradle as shown (in previous post) I always have the muzzle lower than the breech so any water dripping will run down the outside of the barrel, not into the wood.
Also, if I was going to remove the barrel each time I would Definately have wedge pins, not round pins in it.... You have to keep in mind that even tho some guys can take a rifle apart time after time with no problems, other people can just barely maintain keeping one shooting...... so taking one apart & not damaging it every time they clean it is completely out of the question.
:hmm:

:results:

 

[brubincam]

just because someone knows how to build a gun doesnt mean they know how to clean it...taking pins out will eventually either crack or chip wood at pin holes .... :m2c:

 

[schrivener]

I have been using a solvent-only approach because my first mentor says it's impossible to get the barrel dry if you use water and you always get some rust.

Bull.
those who came before us didn't have access to solvents and the like, and they depended on their guns for their lives and livelihoods. Water works FINE. Hot water is better, because it DOES heat up the barrel, making the residue evaporate faster, but cold water works.
:results: :m2c: :imo:

ALL of the salts and residues in black powder are water soluble.

I freely admit to being old fashioned when I clean, but it works for me in the field and at home and it's CHEAP.

I use water. Plain old creek water, or water in the barrel under the rain spouts at the fort. Whatever happens to be available. I use tow wrapped around a worm. Gets in the grooves on my rifle, and works VERY well on the fusil. If it's been a long day of shooting, I'll plug the touchholes with a locust thorn, and let the water stand for a bit. Then fill and dump the barrel a few times, THEN swab. Dry with yet more tow. Oil with whatever oil happens to be available.
The only time I resort to modern stuff is when they get put away for a few months and not shot. Then I use Remington gun oil to lube the barrel. I would prefer bear grease, it doesn't tend to pool in the bottom of the barrel as readily, but I'm out right now.

As to punching the pins out, why? Do you have fouling somehow under the barrel in the channel? Removing the pins and replacing them constantly will cause the pin-holes to open up more, making the pins loose. Which means play in the barrel. I have a one gun that has rawhide wrapped around the stock where the stock split. Barrel hasn't been off the gun in years. The INSIDE of the barrel is what I worry about, and it's very clean.

These are expensive investments, but I think a lot of folks spend a lot of unnecessary time and money buying stuff that is not really any more effective than water.

 

[riarcher]

Everyone seems to be different here, so here's mine.
Most all my guns are pinned. On first cleaning I remove the barrel. Clean out all oils and wax the tar out of the wood and barrel. Plug the vent pour in scalding hot water and let set a few minutes, Dump and refill (want it HOT!). Add anouther (very)heavy layer of wax in the barrel channel, Melt as much onto the bottom and sides of the barrel as I can get to stay. Drain barrel and quickly dry (keeping it hot) and reinstall to stock. Now I wax the tar out of all metal to wood seams (quickly while still hot and with the wife's hair dryer I try to get as much wax into the joints as possible. Let cool. Wax up everything (brass trim and all) and hand buff. (hint; a small 2" pc. of rag used with dried walnut stain is a blessing on a walnut stock). Usually do this 3-4 times before next use. This seals the barrel and wood pretty darn good, just wax it once in awhile to maintain seal. (lock & mortice is the only thing not waxed but mortice is)
Also make a breach scraper filed to conform to the breach with near 100% contact, drill and slot the end near the disc end to accept a rag.
With lock installed, my guns are now "prepped for usage".
After a day of shooting, I swab the barrel (at the range) with windex to remove most of the heavier fowling and I run a swab of Bore Butter down her and head for home (usually with a stop or two along the way).
At home (real clean-up);
Sharpen flint (if req'd)and remove, remove lock and set in HOT water. Run scraper to breach twist a few times and remove. Plug vent, wrap towel and tape around muzzle, fill with HOT water, Get a beer and open eace:. after a couple of minutes dump water, and fill 1/2 way with more hot water and work a bronze brush, dump and repeat until clean. On the end of the scraper add a rag (I use a 5" strip for a .75, 2 1/2 for .45, etc.) and wet with HOT water, start rag into bore and push to breach and twist, repeat til clean, Wet pipe cleaner in flash hole and clean surrounding area, Replug and fill again with hot water to get barrel really hot (have a slug of brew while heating ). Dump, swab with scraper, and jag til dry (but still hot) and clean, follow with jag and 90% alchohol, Swab with Bore Butter (still too hot to hold) with scraper and rag don't forget the breach end.
With tooth brush and flux brush clean the lock and flint, More hot water to heat lock, dry, cool, oil, when all is cool, reassenble and pipe clean vent (again to be sure the BB did't plug it).
If you think it needs it, wax again, if not, just wipe it down and finish your brew.
When you get the routine down you can be done with everything (except the brew :results in 20-30 minutes.
After about an hour or so, I'll sometimes plug the vent and cork the bore if I'm going to store them for any time. If not used, I'll reswab the bores every couple of months with BB. I've never had any rust problems with this method and I live in New England where humidity is often around 90%. "Sealing" IS the key to rust prevention. :thumbsup:
I'm not saying this is the best or only way, just that "it works for me". :front:

 

[Stumpkiller]

... just because someone knows how to build a gun doesnt mean they know how to clean it...

The race is not always to the fast or the fight to the strong; but that's the way you bet. ::

A professional gunsmith that delivers a rusty rifle won't have a good reputation very long. I don't always obey what they say, but I sure listen whan they speak.

You have to keep in mind that even tho some guys can take a rifle apart time after time with no problems, other people can just barely maintain keeping one shooting...... so taking one apart & not damaging it every time they clean it is completely out of the question.

I think in every army throughout the world the soldier who used an issue flintlock was forbidden from disassembling it.

 

[Dave K]

My method of cleaning is much like Birddogs. I also do not remove my barrel. I know that if these barrels were removed everytime from some of these original guns I have here were shot, that I could bet the barrel pin/key holes would be so tore up that the wood would no longer support the gun. Leaving the barrels on has worked on some of these guns for over 170yrs. That is good enough for me. I only can hope to be here another 30-40yrs, if I am lucky, so that leaves plenty of time afterwards to see if I did good. I also leave vents and nipples in the gun. If the gun has a clean barrel from the cleaning, the nipple and vent will be clean as well. :m2c:

 

[Stumpkiller]

A good spot to mention some "work-arounds" when leaving a barrel in place. I keep a supply of manila folders that have been tossed at work (my supply of IBM cards is gone :crackup. I use a dry 2" x 6" strip of manila, followed by one with a smear of paste wax, to chase out any moisture and then coat the underside of the barrel & wood.

I do take the nipples out when cleaning my cap guns. My percussions are all T/C's with the "Patent Breech" and they get a collar of crud around the base of the nipple, and in the corner where the flash channel makes a 90

 

[Dave K]

Even without a flush attachment, when you pull the toothpick out of the vent and use a patched, jagged, ramrod to push down and force out all the water in the barrel, I am pretty sure the vent is clean.I know mine are. The same with a cap gun. If you use a piece of hose pushed snuggly on the nipple and draw the barrel full of water with the patched, jagged, ramrod and then remove the hose and force all the water out through the nipple, I am sure it is pretty clean. That is a LOT of water and water pressue going out the nipple or vent. Besides, I don't imagine the old timers carried to many tools like screw drivers and nipple wrenches. Makes me wonder, has any tools like this been found in any old hunting bags? :hmm:

 

[JeffS]

On my nw trade gun, I pull the lock, then put my finger over the vent hole. Then pour or spray water, or soapy water, or black solve/water in the barrel, fill it maybe half way. Then I plug the muzzle with my thumb of my other hand, and swish the water up and down the barrel by tipping and turning the rifle, let it soak good. Maybe repeat this once. Then hit it with patches. Repeat as necessary. This is really easy, fast, and doesnt require too many patches or extra tools. If you dont want to pull the lock, plug the vent with a soft stick.

Make sure you dry it out good, and lube and protect it from rust. I use bore butter for that.

To clean the lock I use hot water and a toothbrush, then use brake cleaner to dry it, and rem-oil to lube. Im not sure if that is a great method, and would like input if anyone has the mind to.

I like the idea a guy above posted about checking it the next day or two. That practice could save a guy from a real mess.


Added in edit, I dont like to pull the barrel very often, but I think its smart once in a while to check and protect the bottom side of the barrel, and lugs.
Jeff

 

[seattlesteve]

If you leave the barrel on when you clean with water, is there danger of getting water inside the stock, under the barrel which will eventually cause water damage? The advantage of taking off the barrel is that you can really flush it with water and not have to worry about the stock damage.

 

[Rebel]

If you keep the barrel down at an angle so water drains out, and the vent hole pointed down so water doesn't get in the lock mortise, then you don't have to worry much about water getting in anywhere. Also it is a good idea to remove the barrel at least once and wax the stock channel and bottom of barrel real good, then keep the barrel channel sealed with a good bead of wax. :m2c:

 

[riarcher]

That's why I go through the trouble of dissasembly and heavy waxing right off with a new gun. Have 1 that's been sealed this way for about 8 yrs. and just took the barrel out last month for the first time since (inspection). Looked like the day I put it together 8 yrs. ago. Just layed in anouther layer of bee's wax, heated barrel, and reassembled. Probably good for anouther 8+ yrs. Trick is, FILL the gaps with wax so air and moisture has no room to get in to begin with.
PS; I say bee's wax, but it's actually 1 part bee + 1 part paraffin (canning wax). Bees wax is too soft by it's self on a hot August day and tends to melt too easily.

 

[Birddog6]

SeattleSteve: IMHO, if you greased that barrel real good & seal the barrel inlet well with wax real good all the way around, you will not have water damage. And the wood inside should be sealed to prevent moisture from getting in the wood anyway.
Clean the rifle in a cradle Upside down as I show & you Will Not get water in the barrel channel. I have had rifles brought to me that were sealed up good & been in the stocks for over 30 years & they looked like new underside, other than the wood looks just a tad aged rather than fresh cut & sometimes the barels will turn a lil greay, not quite as shiney as a brand new one.

With the materials we have today, the wood preservatives, the rust inhibitors, the waxes, sealers, etc., a dang gun should last 1000 years....... Heck with nothing but plain ol bear grease they laste 300-400 years !

However.......... Clean it how you feel fit & however makes you happy....... If you want to disassemble it every time you shoot it, tht is fine. I like to see a good clean gun.....

But I assure you, if the Normal Shooter continues to remove & install round barrel pins in a rifle that he/she shoot allot & cleans allot, it is just a matter of time before they will be patching some wood, unless they have guides all the way thru on each pin. Now do one once or twice a year they may get away with it, but once a week..... they are gonna mess one up......... IMHO

:results:

 

[Bob J]

Birddog-
Besides using a bore guide, how do you keep keep the worm from scratching the bore?