-
This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.
Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades -
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
cast brass
- Thread starter faste350
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
rich pierce
70 Cal.
Brass should be tested to see it is soft then bent while cold. It will then "work harden" after manipulation and need to be annealed before further work. To anneal, heat in a dark place until you can barely see a dull red color. Then either let cool of quench in water to speed things up. Makes no difference.
One can tell whether it is soft or hard by how it files, how it sounds when struck, and how much it resists bending.
If the castings are from Reeves Goehring they will bend easily.
Normally sand cast yellow guards are brass and not yellow bronze. If yellow bronze, do not bend any more than necessary.
One can tell whether it is soft or hard by how it files, how it sounds when struck, and how much it resists bending.
If the castings are from Reeves Goehring they will bend easily.
Normally sand cast yellow guards are brass and not yellow bronze. If yellow bronze, do not bend any more than necessary.
It doesn't matter if it is sand cast or lost wax cast. The method of casting has nothing to do with the brittleness. It is the alloy that makes one brittle. Heat it to a low red heat and let it cool. You can quench it in water if you want to but it will not make much difference. Best not to quench it when it is red hot. DO NOT try to bend brass when it is hot. If it feels real springy it will probably break if bent. If it is a good alloy like 360 brass it should bend without much effort.
If it is silicone bronze it cannot be bent much
if any. This is not a reply to Rich
If it is silicone bronze it cannot be bent much
if any. This is not a reply to Rich
Your right about the casting process used not having anything to do with how soft or malleable the casting will be but, there was a time not too long ago when sand cast trigger guards etc were cast using a bendable brass.
Trigger guards, etc. that were cast using the investment (lost wax) process were often bronze.
The bronze castings almost always broke if they were bent and no amount of annealing before bending would soften them up.
About the best way to determine if the casting is bronze or brass is to try filing it somewhere that won't be seen after the part has been installed.
If a new fine tooth flat file feels like it is cutting into the material and it readily removes some with each stroke, the material is probably brass.
If the same file feels like it is skidding across a slick, soapy surface and it is not removing much material, the material is probably bronze.
Trigger guards, etc. that were cast using the investment (lost wax) process were often bronze.
The bronze castings almost always broke if they were bent and no amount of annealing before bending would soften them up.
About the best way to determine if the casting is bronze or brass is to try filing it somewhere that won't be seen after the part has been installed.
If a new fine tooth flat file feels like it is cutting into the material and it readily removes some with each stroke, the material is probably brass.
If the same file feels like it is skidding across a slick, soapy surface and it is not removing much material, the material is probably bronze.
Zonie
A few years back I was casting a lot of brass parts via the lost wax process. One time I went to the foundry supply to buy some brass and asked for yellow brass. They did not seem to know exactly what I wanted . Finally they sold me some ingots and told me they were yellow brass. They turned out to be silicone bronze. It ruined about two thousand dollars worth of castings for me and a months work.
One of the butt plates was so brittle it broke when I dropped it on the floor of the shop.
Buying brass is tricky.
A few years back I was casting a lot of brass parts via the lost wax process. One time I went to the foundry supply to buy some brass and asked for yellow brass. They did not seem to know exactly what I wanted . Finally they sold me some ingots and told me they were yellow brass. They turned out to be silicone bronze. It ruined about two thousand dollars worth of castings for me and a months work.
One of the butt plates was so brittle it broke when I dropped it on the floor of the shop.
Buying brass is tricky.
An easier way is to hang the object by a thin string or thread. Then hit lightly with a steel hammer. Brass will go "ding". Bronze will go "d-I-I-n-n-n-n-n-g".
I was given a box full of "brass" doorknobs that had been removed from all of the doors in a local hotel during a remodeling project. I melted a couple of them down and cast a trigger guard and buttplate for a long rifle build. The brass bent very easily, but when filed to finish and polished, the color was pink. Any casters out there ever come across anything like that?
Keb
50 Cal.
I have a gun I built in the 80's with a Bess guard. Over the years the brass tarnished. It looks like laminated steel but different shades of gold colors plus some pink. That's the only pink brass I ever saw on gun fittings.
eggwelder
40 Cal.
- Joined
- May 26, 2015
- Messages
- 936
- Reaction score
- 338
when the brass gets melted, a flux needs to be used and if it gets overheated for too long, a portion of the zinc in the brass will burn off, leaving you with more copper than desired for brass. this is where the soft pink comes from.
Good yellow brass for gun fittings is an alloy called 360 by the industry. It is roughly 61.5% copper and 35.5% Zinc. The rest is iron and lead.
When you melt it there is a danger of burning out the zinc and lead because they have a much lower boiling point than the melting point of the copper.
This occurs if the temperature is raised to high or the metal is exposed to the air to long. Then you end up with pink brass because the copper content is higher.
There is another possibility. The brass you obtained could have been what is called red brass or had some red brass in it. Red brass just has more copper in it. Red brass is often used for faucets and such. It is not as malleable and doesn't make good gun parts.
If you want to cast gun parts one should learn to recognize the differences and sort them out.
One good source is old carburetor fittings and brass fittings or cartridge cases. A good flux to cover the melt is graphite or even powdered charcoal.
When you melt it there is a danger of burning out the zinc and lead because they have a much lower boiling point than the melting point of the copper.
This occurs if the temperature is raised to high or the metal is exposed to the air to long. Then you end up with pink brass because the copper content is higher.
There is another possibility. The brass you obtained could have been what is called red brass or had some red brass in it. Red brass just has more copper in it. Red brass is often used for faucets and such. It is not as malleable and doesn't make good gun parts.
If you want to cast gun parts one should learn to recognize the differences and sort them out.
One good source is old carburetor fittings and brass fittings or cartridge cases. A good flux to cover the melt is graphite or even powdered charcoal.
jerry huddleston said:
My wife is an avid bell collector. Bronze bells are most desirable among those ding-a-lings. :grin:
Most of areas of this bronze wax cast Bplate turned "pink" after a couple of years.....when polished, it looked somewhat like yellow brass but was never the same....not yellow enough. This rifle was built in 1979 and many wax cast parts were cast in bronze at that time. Had to go to sand cast parts to avoid the bronze wax castings.
The Pbox is yellow brass and the comparison is quite evident.....Fred
The Pbox is yellow brass and the comparison is quite evident.....Fred
Col. Batguano
75 Cal.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2011
- Messages
- 5,034
- Reaction score
- 1,407
The yellower triangular shaped area in center of the upper 1/4 of the BP is interesting. I wonder if the metal wasn't completely homogeneous when it was cast? Most of our parts come from fairly small operations, rather than big foundries with massive quality control, so it's entirely possible I suppose.
I've seen little round areas in my parts at times that almost looked like a brass plug was brazed in there. Just strange. It's part of the character of the gun, so I don't go too nuts over it though.
I've seen little round areas in my parts at times that almost looked like a brass plug was brazed in there. Just strange. It's part of the character of the gun, so I don't go too nuts over it though.
I repeat. Sand or wax cast matters not. Any body who says that is just plain wrong. Some founders who don't know guns figure it doesn't make any difference if it's brass or Bronze. They just use what they have. There is where the trouble comes from.
