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cap vs flint

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ebiggs1

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I got some time to do this test just to see if my theory is correct. I believe cap locks shoot harder or let's say with more velocity than a flintlock does. All things being equal. But that is a predicament isn't it? All things being equal? So for this test this is two of my closely matched muzzle loaders.
Both are 45 cal and both have the stock from the factory, 28 inch, TC barrel, 1/48 ROT. We are going to admit right up front this is a random average sample that any one of you may encounter in your own guns. Of course we could do this on many more guns and get a more accurate result but for now this is the situation I used.

IMG_0974.jpg


If you don't agree with that assumption STOP reading now. For the rest of you, here goes!
IMG_0970.jpg


3F GOEX, same can, in each gun using 70 grs from a common brass powder measure no special attention to hair splitting accuracy just the way you would do it if you were target shooting or hunting.
The cap gun used CCI regular caps and the flint used a Pierce flint. The flint gun was primed form the same can of GOEX.
Both guns used Walmart pillow ticking patch material cut at the muzzle lubed with olive oil.
Both use Hornady .440 RB's from the same box.
Neither gun was swabbed and was shot from 20 feet in front of the ProChrono chronograph.
Each gun did two, 5 shot strings. Than the figures were averaged.

Cap gun average was 1762 fps.
IMG_0977.jpg


Flint gun average was 1717 fps But the hole in a flintlock is larger than then nipple hole is. In this case the touch hole is a 070.
IMG_0972.jpg


What does it do if the touch hole was 078 (5/64th) like some here use? Well here it is, 1712 fps.
IMG_0984.jpg


It seems a cap lock is 40 to 50 fps faster than a similar flint gun is.
One thing that I don't know why, or a reason for, is the cap lock had a wider range between the highest velocity and it's lowest velocity. Not by much but both times the flint gun was closer in it's high and low.
IMG_0975.jpg


Another thought crossed my mind about Pyrodex. I normally use Pyrodex when I shoot cap guns and GOEX in my flint guns. So how much, if any, would it improve the velocity in a cap gun using Pyrodex? :hmm:
Maybe a Pyrodex vs GOEX experiment?
 
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing the imformation.

Yeh, more tests, keep em coming.

Couple nice looking TC's
 
The SD could be just the individual barrels (?)
And that would be tuff to determine,,

Good test ebiggs with what you have at hand.
Thank you for the time and report.
 
out of all the tests ive seen this result is pretty standard. flintlocks seem to normally get 50 +/- 10 feet per second slower then caplock guns.

at long ranges the caplocks do tend to fair a little better. having said that, i cant wait for my flintlock to show up!

-Matt
 
Over time I've thought about a long barreled fast twist flinter and wondered about vertical stringing at distance. Perhaps that isn't a valid worry worry with such a rig.
 
Excellent test! In my .45 flint with 70 grns Goex 3F I get velocity between your cap and flint averages; but my barrel is 36" which probably accounts for the increase.
 
ebiggs,
Thanks for your testing. In your initial post you said, "Of course we could do this on many more guns and get a more accurate result but for now this is the situation I used."

I think this idea could be the strength of a forum like this. If a number of other shooters would perform such a test and all the results be pooled. We would then have results from more than one barrel, for instance. It would be cool to have a group of 10-20 shooters that would all follow the same methodology to collect data. Good science is repeatable. Thanks again for your tests and expecially for the group experiment idea.
Regards,
Pletch
 
One reason it took so long between the post that prompted this and actually doing it was, I could not figure out how to do it using the same barrel for each.
This may be impossible or nearly impossible for me. I don't have any gun that has a drum type percussion that would let you change it either way. If someone did they could easily switch back and forth. As long as they would have a lock that fit each. :hmm:

On the Pyrodex vs GOEX would it be necessary to reduce the Pyrodex a certain amount?. Or just use the same and see what if any increase in velocity it offers or actually is. Maybe do both ways, I guess?
Thanx for the replies and as long as anyone likes reading these, I can keep doing them. It involves, SHOOTING a gun. :grin:
 
Makes sense to me. Gas escapes out the vent with a flintlock, not so much with a nipple. Lower pressure, lower velocity.
 
it would be interesting to see a barrel length test too. I've seen that done with rimfires and centerfires, whereby they lopped 1" off a barrel and fired strings all the way from starting with a 30" barrel, down to one that was extremely short; 16". Then they took the same (remaining action, and put it in a handgun, and continued all the way down to snub nose pistol length. Accuracy wasn't a concern of the test. Man, I bet the muzzle flash from a 30-`06 cartridge had to be something with a snubbie!
 
I'd like to see the raw data. Did you calculate the standard deviation for each? What did the group for each gun look like? This experiment is interesting and seems like such a basic idea that I am fairly certain that someone must have done this experiment before. I wonder what their results look like? Have you (or any of the readers) seen anything published on this experiment?
 
I make that a 2.6% drop in velocity, which to a deer won't make much difference. Thanks for running this test. :bow: I have had people tell me that my flintlocks were losing valuable muzzle velocity. Now I know how much.

Many Klatch
 
I wonder how much pressure a cap alone provides in the caplock shot? I know that the blast from a cap when blowing out the muzzle is considerable. It will even push a ball partly down the barrel.

Maybe if you added a similar amount of extra powder to the flintlock; you would get equal velocity.
 
Shazzam. I'd like to try a small bore fast twist flinter. Vertical dispersion was all I was worried about.
 
Cowboy2 said:
Makes sense to me. Gas escapes out the vent with a flintlock, not so much with a nipple. Lower pressure, lower velocity.


I agree with this :hatsoff:
 
I read in a TC muzzleloading booklet that "caplocks will always have more pressure than flintlocks." It seems you have put some numbers to that statement.

You know, I have a chronograph around here somewhere.....

Greg
 
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