Brown Bess

[wahkahchimaol.com]

After the Napoleonic Wars the Spanish were pretty used up financially and physically. That's a component of Mexican and Latin American independence which most people don't consider. Anyway the Spanish muskets were all well-used and British India model Besses were on the market after Napoleon at 10 cents on the dollar. So the Spanish, and later the Mexicans, brought in India Pattern Brown Besses for use in Spanish North America beginning by about 1815. We find the parts and very rarely a complete firearm associated with the missions and other Spanish settlements. The Mexican Army used the entire British spectrum of firearms for the Texian revolution and everything that came later in the Suthwest.

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Cynthia Lee, that's a good plan. I'm loading 60 grains for them in paper cartridges. Also "buck 'n ball" with 60 grains FFG. Thoughts?

 

[pargent]

To light, 100 g of 1f is a good start :thumbsup:

 

[Rifleman1776]

Cynthia Lee, that's a good plan. I'm loading 60 grains for them in paper cartridges. Also "buck 'n ball" with 60 grains FFG. Thoughts?

60 grains is a good charge. Not much on this continent that won't stop. Increasing projectile weight (e.g. buck 'n ball) increases pressures and recoil.
You are teaching, not punishing these kids.
And, this is a thin walled smoothbore, not a heavy barreled rifle.
IMHO, charges greater than 60 grains would be hard to justify.

 

[JackAubrey]

I'm a BB shooter. I have a Pedersoli BB I bought in 1993. She does well with a .715 ball, but I am experimenting with a .735 ball.JA

 

[satwel]

70 grains does not generate unreasonable recoil and will provide a more realistic experience for the students. That's what I use in my India Pattern.

 

[garandman]

TTIUWOP

This Thread Is Useless With Out Pics

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

You are right, Garandman. I will get some pics up when the weekend is over.
Lessons learned from today's Brown Bess class:
1. Everybody learned a lot and really enjoyed it!
2. The beat-up old Pedersoli worked fine. It has a .73 bore, so this is a 12 gauge, right?
3. 60 grains of FFG kind of sounds like a 60 MM mortar from the old days in the USMC when you fire it with only one charge. Kind of a “thunk”. Is 60 grains so small a charge in this gun that it is combusting inefficiently? It seemed very underpowered. My plan is to go to 75 grains, maybe 80.
4. I used 4 kinds of paper cartridges:
a. Newsprint with a .715 ball, tied at the waist. A lot of powder migrated up around the ball. They worked but the powder charge was very variable since lots was lost.
b. Newsprint with a .715 ball, tied at the waist and dipped in bee’s wax before charging with powder. Less powder migrated into the ball area. But I would use a .69 ball in this load because the cartridge was sometimes hard to load. BUT the wax DID seem to act as a lubricant.
c. Newsprint with a .715 ball and a card wad tied off with the ball. Actually this worked really well: the powder did not migrate up into the ball region of the cartridge.
d. Buck and Ball: a .69 ball and three .32 buckshot and a card wad, all tied off with kite string. These worked great, and the students produced genuinely more hits on target. Perhaps 50% of all buckshot hit a row of targets at 25 yards, in addition to the main ball. This would be a great self-defense load. Actually I was very impressed.
5. My thought is that even though it isn’t the most historically accurate, I’m going to try a .69 or maybe even a .67 ball in newsprint with a card wad tied off, then dipped in bee’s wax, then loaded with 80 grains FFG.
6. We will do it again within the month. These non-shooting archaeology students really got the bug. And so did I: I’m going back to enjoy some of this shooting by myself.

 

[Many Klatch]

The .69 caliber ball and buckshot is a good load for plinking. It is very similar to the standard load used by the US Army up to and including the Civil War. For fun, get some gallon milk jugs and fill them water. When you get a hit it really sprays the water.

I think 75 grains of 2F will sound better and shoot better.

Many Klatch

 

[Alden]

The standard charge was three digits. I'd say match the 2F grains to the bore size. Also, put three .33 (00 Buckshot) on top of your standard ball...

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Here's a report from another of my Brown Bess classes.

We fired 18 newsprint cartridges. My Brown Bess has a .73 bore. As the gun became more fouled, the paper-wrapped .69 ball became more and more challenging to get down. Even after cleaning I really had to pound it to get it down towards the end.

So...should I try a .67 ball? Just wondering.

 

[Alden]

Traditionally they would not have wrapped the ball in the paper to effectively patch it. What're you trying to do, get more power and accuracy out of it? BAD Redcoat!

You are dipping into the realm of Charleville balls. Nah...

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Actually, you may want to use .650 ball in a .730 barrel. They have found lots of "undersized" ball (iirc) .670-.680 at battle sites where the bess was fired in combat.

We tried to fire an early war full box of 18 rounds and could not get there with .710 ball in our .75 muskets. When we went to .675 ball we got to nearly a full 24 rounds (the amount of a late war "box") before we could not load. In both cases we had to "bare ball" the load toward the end.

You ARE correct to load the ball still in the cartridge. So if we had to use .675 ball in .75 muskets, then .650 ball in your .73 barrel would be about right. We used 90 grains of 2Fg Goex based on our "blank rounds" and because we were priming from a horn after loading instead of from the cartridge, we subtracted the 10 grains of prime from the cartridge.

LD

 

[Alden]

But, the .75's, aren't...

Balls are to be smaller, of course. As indicated what was found was not .69 Charleville size ball which, again, you are delving into. Firing "bare ball" all along you basically won't have problems firing out even the later-war British 36-round cartridge box.

They exchanged power and accuracy for reliable mass fire and reliance on a push of bayonets, the main weapon.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

But they did load the ball with the paper, otherwise there would be no reason to "pull" their rounds which is documented..., when they could easily have dumped them. :grin:

LD

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Another Brown Bess question: I want to pull the barrel for better cleaning. So

As I sit holding the musket with the trigger guard facing away from me, with the muzzle pointed straight up, so that the top of the musket barrel is facing me, do I push the pins out from right to left or from left to right? Or does it matter?

Thanks.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Doesn't matter on Pedersoli or Indian guns which direction one taps the pins, but I prefer to sit and place a cloth in my lap, and place the musket across the tops of my thighs, so that when the pin is driven out, it falls into the cloth. One can rest the butt of the musket on the ground for the forward two pins.


LD

 

[Rifleman1776]

You are not incorrect. But, that approach may not always be correct.
My Ped. BB barrel did not seat properly in it's channel. So, I pulled it, did some wood scraping, etc. Then reset. But, when I did that I redrilled the lug holes and hand ground some brazing rod to a taper, enlarged the right side holes and inserted my new pins. A 'sorta' gunsmith friend wanted to look the gun over so I lent it to him. When I got it back he had messed over several things. One was he force drove the pins out to the left and tore a lot of wood in the process and mangled the lugs. :cursing:
Point is, do study the gun first to make sure something similar has not been done to yours. Then proceed carefully, never force anything. It should be an easy process but, really, seldom needed.

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

How often do people pull their barrels for cleaning?

 

[pargent]

Ahistory group in New South Wales maintains that the bess cartridge ball size was around .66 to .65 . This makes sence for loading in combat and your work backs that up somewhat. They are the 95th rifles and they have somevids. on u-tube . :thumbsup: