.I am done.
Amen, brother. Wish I'd said that!!!Squirrel Tail said:Carl Davis said:Paul, you can't have "culture" without "people".
Ah! But you certainly can have people without culture! :grin:
Thank you! I'd hate to think that after I spent more than several hours on a thread that there are those out there that think this was nothing more than a sparring match. I encourage all who are interested, to find the books I listed and educate your self on the Brown Bess and guns for the North American Indian trade. I find the subjects fascinating.Claude said:Actually, there's a lot to be learned from all this. As long as the dialog doesn't get too personal, I think it's very informative to have people (who know much more than I do) discuss the two sides of an issue.
runnball said:Oh I agree completely with your viewpoint but this came very close to getting "personal" several times. You could feel the tension without even being there in person.
Now, wouldn't that be cool? :thumbsup: I just re read this entire thread....(what a job! :haha: ) One thing it left me with is the desire to see these british guns up close and personal. It would be great fun to get into somebody's private collection of 18th century British small arms for a day or two. It would also be great to order (and receive) all the British military parts kits from The Rifle Shoppe and put them together. Certainly would make a nice contemporary collection.chuckpa said:Mike
I think that sea service carbine is so cool as you say that I might just make one up.
Mike Brooks said:Good Lord! This is nearly unbelievable! :shake: You have to be one of the windiest people I've ever run across. :haha: One thing has always been obvious with you Paul, the less you know about something the more you tend to write to cover up the fact that you have no clue what you're talking about. Probably has something to do with your profession.
Read the following books then we'll be able to have an intelligent conversation on the subjects. Your reliance on what you learned in collage 40 years ago just isn't current enough, in fact it's mostly folklore.
These will cover alot of info on the Brown Bess and the carbines.
"PATTERN DATES FOR BRITISH ORDINANCE SMALL ARMS 1718-1783" by Dewitt Bailey
"MUSKETS OF THE REVOLUTION AND THE FRENCH AND INDIAN WARS" BY Bill Ahearn
This one is especially interesting with many fist hand references as to what arms the Indians preferred.
"BRITISH MILITARY FLINTLOCK RIFLES 1740-1840"
Dewitt Bailey again.
And these by TM Hamilton on Indian trade guns:
"EARLY INDIAN TRADE GUNS 1625-1775
"FIREARMS ON THE FRONTIER: GUNS AT FORT MICHILIMACKINAC 1715-1781
"COLONIAL FRONTIER GUNS"
More on Indian trade guns:
"THE NORTHWEST GUN" by C.E. Hanson
"TRADE GUNS OF THE HUDSON'R BAY COMPANY 1670-1970" by S.J. Gooding
"THE FUSIL DE TULLE IN NEW FRANCE 1691-1741" by R. Bouchard
"SUCCESS IN THE NORTH AMERICAN FUR TRADE" by B.Conner
"PROCEEDINGS OF THE 1984 TRADE GUN CONFERENCE" Vol I & II
That ought to be enough to give you some basic knowledge on the subjects.
lockjaw said:...i like a good debate when it is fought on the facts...facts are facts,...opinions are like...well,you know...everybody has one... :haha: :haha: :haha:
Russ T Frizzen said:lockjaw said:...i like a good debate when it is fought on the facts...facts are facts,...opinions are like...well,you know...everybody has one... :haha: :haha: :haha:
A bellybutton?
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