Blackpowder for Defense?

Just a somewhat tongue in cheek comment about self defense”¦

Would it be wise for a pro football team to play without shoes?
How about a major league baseball team not using gloves?
Entering a motorcycle race riding a bicycle?
And, the old standby - Bringing a knife to a gunfight?

I want to be better equipped than my opponent - especially if lives depend open it. I encourage everyone to use whatever modern, state-of-the-art, technology they have at their disposal. We aren't in the movies and there aren't any "do overs".

But, remember be prepared to use what you have at hand at the time. Europeans and Filipinos were given primitive firearms in order for them to go out and get better ones from the Germans and Japanese.

 

[Claude Mathis]

Just a somewhat tongue in cheek comment about self defense”¦

Would it be wise for a pro football team to play without shoes?
How about a major league baseball team not using gloves?
Entering a motorcycle race riding a bicycle?
And, the old standby - Bringing a knife to a gunfight?

I want to be better equipped than my opponent - especially if lives depend open it. I encourage everyone to use whatever modern, state-of-the-art, technology they have at their disposal. We aren't in the movies and there aren't any "do overs".

But, remember be prepared to use what you have at hand at the time.

That's why I suggest having "modern" weapons available. Obviously, if I'm attacked in the shower, I'll have nothing available, but I think we're talking in "general terms" here, not every possible scenario.

Europeans and Filipinos were given primitive firearms in order for them to go out and get better ones from the Germans and Japanese.

I thought we were talking closer to home, but if I'm attacked by the Germans or Japanese, I'll get their weapons. :wink:

 

In the shower? There are plenty of items at hand. Wooden handle from a toilet plunger. Hair spray, spray cleaners, talcum/footpowder powder, Cleaners like Comet or Ajax and most aerosols make excellent blinding/choking agents. Rolled up magazines and the list goes on.

 

[Claude Mathis]

In the shower? There are plenty of items at hand. Wooden handle from a toilet plunger. Hair spray, spray cleaners, talcum/footpowder powder, Cleaners like Comet or Ajax and most aerosols make excellent blinding/choking agents. Rolled up magazines and the list goes on.

I don't take any of those things into the shower. I'm kind of just a bar of soap and shampoo kind of guy. :wink:

 

[Cowboy2]

In a life or death situation, would you rather race a child to the emergency room in a 2012 Mustang, or a Model T? If its the former, why choose a weapon to defend your or their life that was obsolete 30-40 years before the latter was invented?

If a cap and ball revolver was the only thing I owned and could afford, that's what would be on my nightstand. But it ain't, so it isn't.

 

[Sunkmanitu Tanka]

Maybe a good standpoint that is ok on your side of the big water ... but over here in Belgium??? Besides the fact that gun-ownership is only possible as a sports shooter, or a hunter, and only permitted after theoretical, practical and psycholigal exams, an inquiry between the neighbours to see if someone has a problem with you, having a gun and the other problems you encounter. But you can be regarded as a felon if you even have a pocket knife that locks the blade in place when opened... In the case of public demonstrations against the government or whatever, you can be regarded as 'dangerous' if you have even a turnscrew in the boot of your car - you could eventually 'stab' somebody with it... I have no comment on your 2nd amendment - that's your business - but over here we got'n to the point that criminals in certain cases have more rights than citizens, and citizens have a hell of a time to defend themselves against the law if they defend themselves against any intruder into their home or if they defend themselvs against any atack on the streets...

 

[Claude Mathis]

To nobody in particular;

The original question was”¦

"I'm just curious this group's thoughts on using black powder weapons for defensive purposes."

It's not about firearm laws around the world, or listing every item on your property that could be used as a weapon. Of course we'd use whatever is available, but wasn't the context of the question. Hell, I can cut your throat with my credit card, but that's not the topic.

My short answer to the OP is, "bad idea". :wink:

 

[Col. Batguano]

The more rounds you throw around, the more likely someone is catching "Friendly Fire."

In a gun fight, there is no such thing as "Friendly Fire".

But seriously, this sounds more like a topic for;

Ask Walter Mitty

 

[FishDFly]

Seems like Claude has summed things up nicely, what else can a person add..

 

[swathdiver]

Many years ago in Santee CA , a suburb of San Diego the police raided the wrong house and the owner of said house, hearing the commotion, grabbed a replica Walker .44. He was shot and paralyzed.

There's alot unsaid that doesn't make it a valid comparison. We don't know if the feller with the Walker saw the uniforms and decided not to fire at the same moment the storm trooper decided not to hold his.


In a general sense, you have to be willing to instantly respond to a robber without hesitation. That's the key to surviving and winning. I think John Wayne in The Shootist said it best but I cannot remember the exact words.

 

[cynthialee]

To nobody in particular;

The original question was”¦

"I'm just curious this group's thoughts on using black powder weapons for defensive purposes."

It's not about firearm laws around the world, or listing every item on your property that could be used as a weapon. Of course we'd use whatever is available, but wasn't the context of the question. Hell, I can cut your throat with my credit card, but that's not the topic.

My short answer to the OP is, "bad idea". :wink:

Bad idea only if you have better options.
It is a good idea if it is the only option available.

Like was already mentioned by anouther poster, a BP firearm beats a pointy stick.

With the house rules I have agreed to live with, it is either a ball bat or a black powder revolver. I'll take my wheel gun over a ball bat.

 

[ebiggs1]

One thing I have noticed, maybe confined to folks on this board, but I see it in Cowboy Action Shooters too, is the fantasy of this hobby is carried over well beyond owning and shooting the guns.
In some form, people need to jump back to reality. Separate the hobby from life.

To quote something I read here,

My short answer to the OP is, "bad idea".

 

[Robert Egler]

In some form, people need to jump back to reality.

Reality is where people who have poor imaginations live. :haha:

On the serious side, for most people the 'reality' is that statistically you are unlikely to ever need a firearm for self defense, and the reality is that if you do, you are really very unlikely to need more than the 6 shots in a revolver.

Carrying a Glock with 15 rounds and 2 extra mags (as I know some people who do) is as unrealistic (or not) as carrying a Remington .44 C&B.

Personally I don't have a problem with either one, but one is no more rooted in 'fantasy' than the other one.

 

[J.D.]

How many rounds are fired by each side during an encounter with a would be robber?

I would gather that in most cases only a round or two are fired before one side becomes incapacitated.

Therefore, a 5-shot revolver should be sufficient, the manufacturers have been making them for over 150 years now.

As to the modern day comparisons, I wouldn't want to get shot by any caliber! Those comparables have put plenty of bad guys in boot hill.

Studies of gunfights by law enforcement officers indicate that even well trained officers only make about 30% hits in stressful situations.

30% of six shots = 1.8 hits per cylinder.

While many bad guys often do run after only one or two shots from a good guy, real life encounters have seen bad guys still fighting after receiving several torso hits, so it all depends on how determined an attacker is?

While I have never used lethal force, I have been trained by people who have been there and done that on more than one occasion, and IMHO, based on my training, much of what has been disseminated on this thread is wishful thinking based on erroneous ideas.

I would much rather err on the side of carrying too much ammo, for the latest piece of tactical plastic, rather than err on the side of not enough.

There are more than a few vids of gunfights on youtube where more rounds were fired in only a coupla seconds, than one would think possible, with few if any hits.

Here is an article that might be appropriate for this thread.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/woman-hiding-kids-shoots-intruder/nTm7s/

The old adage of "prepare for the worst, pray for the best" comes to mind, during any of these discussions.

 

[J.D.]

I forgot to mention a good training device that can reveal good and bad ideas concerning self defense scenarios. Buy a single action airsoft revolver to use in your training scenario, to compare the viability of a percussion revolver against a modern styled airsoft bottom feeder.

Buy CO2 powered pistols and wear GOOD protective head gear. Be aware that CO2 powered airsoft pistols can and will raise blood blisters on exposed skin. Airsoft bbs can and will penetrate aluminum and vinyl siding, and break any number of breakables, so if one decides to go this route, take appropriate care to avoid injury and damage to oneself and one's surroundings.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Separate the hobby from life.

We already have. For most of us, muzzle loading is far more imporant and serious than life and death.

 

[Rifleman1776]

you are unlikely to ever need a firearm for self defense, and the reality is that if you do, you are really very unlikely to need more than the 6 shots in a revolver.

Three times in my life I have had to produce a gun in self defense. Never did I have to fire it. All three times the presence alone was enough to make the assailants turn and leave promptly. BTW, it was a .22lr revolver in all three instances.

 

[cynthialee]

you are unlikely to ever need a firearm for self defense, and the reality is that if you do, you are really very unlikely to need more than the 6 shots in a revolver.

Three times in my life I have had to produce a gun in self defense. Never did I have to fire it. All three times the presence alone was enough to make the assailants turn and leave promptly. BTW, it was a .22lr revolver in all three instances.

I have only had to pull a gun once. It ended the situation and I kept my money. No shots were fired.

 

[Billnpatti]

Yep, if it's a choice between a pointy stick, a baseball bat and a BP revolver, I'll go for the one that goes BANG! But.....if it's a choice between a BP revolver and a modern gun.....well...modern gun gets my nod. Just makes sense to me.

I have had a concealed carry permit for many years and have had to reach for my gun only one time. I did not have to remove it, just put my hand on it and the confrontation was over. Just goes to show that hot headed young turds should not mess with old farts who legally have a gun.

 

[Palmetto Ed]

Sure I would.But it's usually my 12g pump I'll grab first