Long Range Flintlock?

[dixiehunter308]

Hey guys. I joined this forum to ask this specific question. Before I start, I know I will catch some flack with what I am going to ask. I'll try to offer an explanation.

Is there a flintlock out there that I can mount a scope to and ethically use to hunt deer to take 100-150 yard shots? Or even 200 yard shots possibly?

I know next to nothing about flintlocks, but I am willing to learn. I am very well aware that to be ethical with a weapon for hunting purposes, you need to be knowledgeable and practiced. I am not looking for a quick fix that I can purchase one day and go hunting the next. If there is a way to accomplish my goal with this, I am willing to learn what I need to learn and put in the time to get some experience with it before hunting.

The reason I am wanting to do this is that there is a public hunting area close to where I live that you can hunt with a bow or flintlock. I am an avid bowhunter and I have bow hunted this property for 12 years. It just finally dawned on me that I might up my odds if I could shoot further.

I am well aware that part of the appeal of hunting with a bow or a flintlock is in the nostalgia and challenge of it. I will certainly continue to bow hunt this property, even during rifle season. But I would like to have a longer range alternative when a specific situation calls for it.

I am sure there are those out there that cringed when I mentioned putting a scope on a flintlock. But again, I'm not looking to use a flintlock for the nostalgia of it. I'm definitely not a black powder purist. This would just be a tool for me. My goal is simply to tip the odds in my favor in a hunting scenario where a flintlock is the only option above what I have already been doing.

I have a TC Hawken percussion cap rifle that I shoot just for fun, so I'm not totally without black powder experience. But when it comes to flintlocks and optics and long range, I'm clueless. I know of a couple of other guys hunting this same property with scoped flintlocks, so it can obviously be done. But how would I go about about finding the right gun, bullet, powder, scope, etc? And what would my range limitations be even if I was equipped with the right gun and knowledge?

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

I have no idea why you would need to shoot that far. I have been hunting deer for 30+ years and have rarely had to shoot more than 50 yards.
I shot one at 125 yards one time, incredibly lucky shot. There is no way you'll hit one with a round ball consistently at 200 yards, even with a scope, round balls don't fly that well. You might be able to do it with a bullet barrel and shoot one of those sabot thingys, but you'll wear out your vent hole pretty quick.
Slap a scope on your TC and see how you do at those ranges. A flintlock with a scope will do just as well. It isn't the ignition that is the problem, it's the ballistics of the round ball.

 

[Zonie]

Almost all of the fully stocked flintlocks you will find have rifling that is not well suited for shooting bullets. The rifling is almost always made to shoot patched round lead balls.

Even the largest caliber roundball tends to lose a LOT of its velocity after it has traveled 120 yards. I'm not saying it can't kill a deer beyond that range because it can but, the amount of drop in the balls trajectory makes shooting further a real challenge. One that a ethical hunter would not want to try.

You say your a bow hunter and as you know, bow hunting has a very limited range. Think of a patched roundball as a way to extend that limited range out to 100 yards.
100 yards IMO will extend the range to 4 times the distance most archers limit themselves to. If you can live with that limitation, your in business.

Your skill as an archer will be valuable to you when you use a muzzleloader with a patched roundball to hunt with and IMO the gun will open up many new opportunities you would have passed up with your bow.

As for the telescopic sight, if you have normal vision I think the recommended max distance of 100 yards will remove the need for such a device.
Plain old iron sights or a peep sight can be used to keep your shots in a 4 inch circle at that distance.

 

[30coupe]

I concur with what has already been said. I don't use the round ball to extend to 4+ times my bow hunting distance, but for one that's just out of my comfort zone a ways. I added a Lyman peep sight to my TC Hawken...much kinder to old eyes. I can shoot 3" or better 100 yard groups with it, but I'd probably want a deer to be under 75 just to be on the safe side. If you look at some ballistic tables, you will see that a patched ball loses energy very quickly. Being able to hit a deer at 200 yards isn't the same as making a clean kill at that range.

That said, if you really think you want to scope it and perhaps shoot 100+ yards. You can get a Lyman Great Plains Hunter in flintlock. It has a 1:32 twist for shooting bullets, which would probably get you to 200 yards if you find the right load and bullet, and still have enough oomph to make a clean kill. Putting scope mounts on the top flat shouldn't be a problem for a competent gunsmith.

 

[dixiehunter308]

Almost all of the fully stocked flintlocks you will find have rifling that is not well suited for shooting bullets. The rifling is almost always made to shoot patched round lead balls.

Even the largest caliber roundball tends to lose a LOT of its velocity after it has traveled 120 yards. I'm not saying it can't kill a deer beyond that range because it can but, the amount of drop in the balls trajectory makes shooting further a real challenge. One that a ethical hunter would not want to try.

You say your a bow hunter and as you know, bow hunting has a very limited range. Think of a patched roundball as a way to extend that limited range out to 100 yards.
100 yards IMO will extend the range to 4 times the distance most archers limit themselves to. If you can live with that limitation, your in business.

Your skill as an archer will be valuable to you when you use a muzzleloader with a patched roundball to hunt with and IMO the gun will open up many new opportunities you would have passed up with your bow.

As for the telescopic sight, if you have normal vision I think the recommended max distance of 100 yards will remove the need for such a device.
Plain old iron sights or a peep sight can be used to keep your shots in a 4 inch circle at that distance.

Thanks for the feedback. I am certainly not looking at this as a way to get around considering the ethics of a shot on a live animal. That will be considered first and foremost. I am just genuinely uneducated about the possibilities that are out there with flintlocks.

If the range that I would open myself up to would genuinely be just 100 yards, then so be it. I don't want to push the limits of what the flintlock can do.

 

[dixiehunter308]

I concur with what has already been said. I don't use the round ball to extend to 4+ times my bow hunting distance, but for one that's just out of my comfort zone a ways. I added a Lyman peep sight to my TC Hawken...much kinder to old eyes. I can shoot 3" or better 100 yard groups with it, but I'd probably want a deer to be under 75 just to be on the safe side. If you look at some ballistic tables, you will see that a patched ball loses energy very quickly. Being able to hit a deer at 200 yards isn't the same as making a clean kill at that range.

That said, if you really think you want to scope it and perhaps shoot 100+ yards. You can get a Lyman Great Plains Hunter in flintlock. It has a 1:32 twist for shooting bullets, which would probably get you to 200 yards if you find the right load and bullet, and still have enough oomph to make a clean kill. Putting scope mounts on the top flat shouldn't be a problem for a competent gunsmith.

Thanks for the insights. I don't mind getting a high end flintlock or having one customized or made for me. I am a pretty serious deer hunter and I'm willing to spend some money on a good gun and put in the time to learn the ins and outs. I don't mind tinkering with it to find the right load and bullet out to extended ranges.

I totally agree with you about the difference between hitting a deer and making a clean kill. Obviously I don't have the experience with a flintlock to be able to know what distance that limitation starts to come into play, but I am willing to study it and experiment with it and learn.

Are there custom made flintlocks out there or modifications to stock rifles that could outperform production models in range while still maintaining adequate ballistics to ethically take down a deer at 150-200 yard ranges?

 

[Black Hand]

Thanks for the insights. I don't mind getting a high end flintlock or having one customized or made for me. I am a pretty serious deer hunter and I'm willing to spend some money on a good gun and put in the time to learn the ins and outs. I don't mind tinkering with it to find the right load and bullet out to extended ranges.

I totally agree with you about the difference between hitting a deer and making a clean kill. Obviously I don't have the experience with a flintlock to be able to know what distance that limitation starts to come into play, but I am willing to study it and experiment with it and learn.

Are there custom made flintlocks out there or modifications to stock rifles that could outperform production models in range while still maintaining adequate ballistics to ethically take down a deer at 150-200 yard ranges?

You will gain a greater satisfaction when you embrace the limitations of a flintlock and are successful. Personally, If I want a 200 yard range, I will shoot a centerfire, but shooting a flintlock allows me to enjoy the experience, albeit at a far shorter range. But I can honestly tell you that a doe with a flintlock is a trophy for me....

All that said, every deer I've gotten with a flintlock has been at 50 or less yards.

 

[Gene L]

I don't think so, but I don't know for sure. The energy just isn't there to humanely kill a deer with any degree of certainty at 200 yards, I think. Saying this, I'm not a hunter and have never killed a deer with a ML rifle and doubt I ever will. So I might be wrong. I would be surprised if one could hit a paper plate at 200 yards with a ML rifle, at least the kind this board is concerned with. I suppose you could punch paper off a rest at that range with a 25 pound barrel, but I'm not even sure of that.

 

[S.Kenton]

I have taken deer at 90 and 100 yards succefully. I shot leaning on a tree for the 100 yard shot, the 90 yard was offhand. I practiced for those long shots all year long to gain the confidence and breathing techniques required. That being said, I’d not attempt a shot further than I have practiced successfully.

 

[30coupe]

I don't know of anyone who builds the kind of rifle you are looking for. That's why I suggested the Lyman, which is purportedly an accurate gun if you do your part. This may not be the best forum to answer your question as most of us here are more into the challenge of hunting the old fashioned way. My guess is the reason the area you hunt is restricted to bow and flintlock is to keep shots close. You might want to check into that before you spend a bunch of money on a long range flinter.

 

[EC121]

T/C used to make a scope mount for their barrels that screwed into the back sight holes. Might try that. But to shoot 200 yards you will just about have to know the exact distance of the shot and be sighted in for that distance. The ball will drop so much that the trajectory will look like a rainbow. A rifle sighted in for 150 to 200 yds. might be useless at less than 100.

 

[dixiehunter308]

All good info. Thanks for the help.

I don’t want to make it sound like I don’t have a respect for doing it the hard way. I have access to plenty of private land to hunt but I typically choose to go the challenging route of hunting public land and accessing it by canoe/kayak or walking 1-2 miles to where I want to hunt. I love a good challenge and I have a great appreciation for the things about the outdoors that are simple and nostalgic. There are just some scenarios I encounter where I would like to improve my odds and this is something I wanted to investigate.

I am going to call Lyman tomorrow and ask about the Great Plains Hunter.

Sorry if I have rubbed anyone the wrong way by bringing up this topic. You guys have been great though. Thank you for the help.

 

[30coupe]

I don't think you offended anyone here. We just probably aren't that much help due to your unique question. Hope you find what you're looking for.

 

[Don Steele]

First...no offense taken. I appreciate your taking the time to ask around for information in a genuine effort to learn.
Use of a flintlock for ignition of your powder isn't the limiting factor in shooting longer than normal range. The limitation is imposed by the choice of projectile that usually goes along with a flintlock.
I don't know anything about the Lyman rifle already suggested and will recommend you do some research on that one. What I can suggest however is that the easiest way to accomplish your goal would be to put a good quality "bullet barrel" (fast twist e.g.: 1:18 or 1:20) on a T/C flintlock "Hawken style" rifle and mount a scope on it. A long heavy bullet, paper patched in front of a bunch of powder will do the trick for you.
Good Luck. Let us know what you come up with.

 

[missionary5155]

Good morning
During the civil war very long accurate shots were taken with scoped rifled barrels using long heavy cast bullets fired from fast twist rifles like the Whitworths. No reason a flintlock could not do the same thing.
There were so called rifled flintlock "wall guns" at stockades of huge proportions that were used to dispatch unwanted intruders slurking about out of range of the average rifle. Very heavy long barrels and used massive powder charges to propel caliber .90 and larger round balls long distances. Be like hauling a 30 pound Barret through the woods today.

But seeing a corn cruncher at 200 yards will always be the issue but not impossible out on the long open fields and rolling hills of many areas. If you are willing and put in the practice no reason you cannot get it done.

My personal preference is a wood bow at under 20 yards. But if I ever get into a place where I have to give up river bottoms and thick snarly brushy stuff I will do what needs to be done.
So hey... study along. If a bison can be shot at 250-500 yards or so on a daily basis with a rifled barrel a flintlock can also do it. It is just another ignition source. Just going to have to get the right barrel attached and practice a bunch.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Hey guys. I joined this forum to ask this specific question. Before I start, I know I will catch some flack with what I am going to ask. I'll try to offer an explanation.

Is there a flintlock out there that I can mount a scope to and ethically use to hunt deer to take 100-150 yard shots? Or even 200 yard shots possibly?

I know next to nothing about flintlocks, but I am willing to learn. I am very well aware that to be ethical with a weapon for hunting purposes, you need to be knowledgeable and practiced. I am not looking for a quick fix that I can purchase one day and go hunting the next. If there is a way to accomplish my goal with this, I am willing to learn what I need to learn and put in the time to get some experience with it before hunting.

The reason I am wanting to do this is that there is a public hunting area close to where I live that you can hunt with a bow or flintlock. I am an avid bowhunter and I have bow hunted this property for 12 years. It just finally dawned on me that I might up my odds if I could shoot further.

I am well aware that part of the appeal of hunting with a bow or a flintlock is in the nostalgia and challenge of it. I will certainly continue to bow hunt this property, even during rifle season. But I would like to have a longer range alternative when a specific situation calls for it.

I am sure there are those out there that cringed when I mentioned putting a scope on a flintlock. But again, I'm not looking to use a flintlock for the nostalgia of it. I'm definitely not a black powder purist. This would just be a tool for me. My goal is simply to tip the odds in my favor in a hunting scenario where a flintlock is the only option above what I have already been doing.

I have a TC Hawken percussion cap rifle that I shoot just for fun, so I'm not totally without black powder experience. But when it comes to flintlocks and optics and long range, I'm clueless. I know of a couple of other guys hunting this same property with scoped flintlocks, so it can obviously be done. But how would I go about about finding the right gun, bullet, powder, scope, etc? And what would my range limitations be even if I was equipped with the right gun and knowledge?

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

My personal preference with bow and flintlock is to get as close as possible.
I ground hunt practicing concealment and stalk.
Archery for several years and went back to the flinter this year.
Some times they win...sometimes I do.
Sounds silly but I have done catch and releases...only to line up a sure shot and let them go on their way....builds patience and reinforces good concealment habits and when the time comes good well placed humane kill shots.
As you will see on here the many posts that reflect the many attributes that goes with a flintlock and that before you even hit the woods.
This forum is a valuable source of information.
no harm in employing its use.

Good luck in your pursuits.
Sussexmuzllodr

 

[Don Steele]

Sussexmuzllodr said:
"Sounds silly but I have done catch and releases...only to line up a sure shot and let them go on their way.."
Absolutely..!! My BEST memory of a Whitetail hunt is the one where I never took a shot.
Last day of the season. My freezer was already well stocked. Gorgeous cool dry morning in the South Georgia Deer Woods. I was well concealed on the ground when I saw a nice sized Doe walking my way between the trees. I put the sights on her several times during her approach, only to bring the rifle back down without touching the trigger... as she slowly made her way past me (closest point was 20-25 yds) without ever detecting my presence.