Blackpowder for Defense?

[Blizzard of '93]

sort of morbid to ponder but the howdah 20ga double loaded with #4 buck would chew up an attacker something fierce.

 

[swathdiver]

#4 buck is the best IMO for such a purpose. It's what the men with green faces used in their Ithaca's when doing parakeet ops in Vietnam.

 

[TFoley]

#4 buck is the best IMO for such a purpose. It's what the men with green faces used in their Ithaca's when doing parakeet ops in Vietnam.

Prolly not with a BP percussion or flintlock, tho'....

tac

 

[TFoley]

You might be right about the expansion of a .451 diameter roundball being very little at handgun velocities. (.451 is the size most .44 caliber C&B pistols use and that is about the size of the grooves in the barrel).

Even so, that 9mm will have to expand over 27 percent (27.28 %) before it equals the entry size of the .451 ball.

Yes, but the 9mm has 18 rounds and can be reloaded in a heartbeat, so I can live with the expansion. (pun intended) :grin:

i've seen pt's shot 15 times with a 9mm who walked out of the ER. poorly shot of course.

Shoot 'em in an eyeball. Any eyeball will do.

tac

 

[J.D.]

What's already been said in this thread many times,
is modern is better, preparedness and practice adds to that, and if all you have is your traditional gun it's better than nothing.

Don't presume everyone that doesn't agree with you is un-prepared and ignorant.

What else can I assume if someone is determined to stake their life and especially the lives of their families on outdated technology when more appropriate and far more effective tools are available?

The definition of Ignorant, BTW, is unschooled or unknowing.

My attempt on this thread is to raise questions and school the unknowing who IMHO,very naively seem to think that criminals will always run when a weapon is produced, and those that naively believe that it will only take one shot to disable a criminal.

Those things do sometimes happen, but other more "intense" things happen too.

IMHO, if anyone is serious about defending their family, they need to sell the BP revolver and use that money to buy something more appropriate...and get proper training in it's use.

Though training has heretofore not been mentioned, you make a good point in getting proper training.

How many folks who would rely on a BP revolver would seek training? What's more, how many trainers would allow a student to use a BP revolver in training? Not many.

In my job, I am aware of how many criminals walk the street and how they operate. IMHO, people who are not aware of the sheer numbers of criminals living close by are potential victims.

Those who do not take adequate measures to protect themselves and their families have an ever growing chance of becoming victims of crime, as many states are literally opening their doors to release so called "non-violent offenders" as a means to save money. I am aware that a nearby state has released at least a few criminals with a history of violent behavior. One of those recent releasees has since murdered his girlfriend, dismembering her remains in an attempt to hide the body. So much for any idea that no one ever dies from criminal assault.

A "non-violent" criminal is one who does not have a criminal history of violent behavior. What that means is, they haven't been CAUGHT doing anything violent, but that DOES NOT mean they are NOT violent.

All criminals can be incredibly violent if that violence allows them to get what they want.

Don't think because someone lives in a "good" neighborhood", that they will not be a victim of crime. Criminals are well aware that the good stuff worth stealing is located in the "good neighborhoods", rather than in the "hood".

The same goes for those living in rural areas. From the criminals standpoint, there are far fewer witnesses to call the local police or point fingers when a theft or home invasion occurs in rural areas. Not to mention that help, in the form of the County sheriff, takes much longer to arrive.

 

[cynthialee]

all your logic isn't going to do me a bit of good if my sweety won't listen

I have barked up that tree way too many times.

Besides...
What of the people here who can not have a modern pistol? Should they violate the law for safety sake? Or shall they make do with what they can?

 

[Claude Mathis]

all your logic isn't going to do me a bit of good if my sweety won't listen

I have barked up that tree way too many times.

Besides...
What of the people here who can not have a modern pistol? Should they violate the law for safety sake? Or shall they make do with what they can?

I may be mistaken, but I thought the original question was a technical one about using a muzzleloader for defense? People seem to be listing every possible scenario and anecdotal situation that has unlimited possibilities.

The fact that someone may not be allowed to have a modern pistol is moot. The question is about the technology, not everyone's personal situation. IMO

Had the OP asked, "What do you personally choose and why?" - that would be different.

With all due respect to everyine, some of the answers here are comparable to someone asking, "Which car is faster" and someone answers with, "I don't have a drivers license". Totally irrelevant. :wink:

 

[cynthialee]

it is on page 6
we were bound to derail at least 4 times

There seems to be an average of 1.5 derails per 2 pages of any partcicular thread.
Some topics derail much faster and others can stay on track more easily.

But no thread ever stays on topic to the end.
nature of the beast.
I know, I know....
:yakyak:

 

[mattybock]

well I think of it as this - from the dark ages to the civil war lots of people have shot and killed bad guys in many cases of self defense. And aren't those bad guys just as dead as the modern ones?

And I'm not talk about old age neither. If a BP gun is what you have, then keep it ready, but if you can afford and legally keep a breech loader, then those are better for today's world.

 

[J.D.]

What of the people here who can not have a modern pistol? Should they violate the law for safety sake? Or shall they make do with what they can?

If local laws are so stringent that they do not allow ownership of modern handguns, I suspect that any use of a BP arm in a self defense situation will be viewed as a weapons charge. Either way you probably will be arrested for use of a weapon.

 

in most cases it is a far better thing to be arrested than dead!

bob g

 

[cynthialee]

I was gonna say something to that effect.

What is it they say? Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

 

[ChrisPer]

Thanks for the education everyone. The talk implying that BP replicas are non-guns in US law is interesting. I have been reading about these topics for 40 years, from furrin parts. It is my clear impression that definitions are applicable for the purposes of the defining law only, unless included in others by explicit reference to that definition. GCA 68 is the law that gave rise to this story, as it exempted these arms from the purchaser's requirement to mail order via an FFL. Non-gun was a fashionable advertising reference in the early 1970s used to signify things like replicas and non-firing imitation firearms.

A law that defines offences like 'being armed in a school gun-free zone' will treat a C&B CCW as a firearm in the ordinary meaning of that word.

Can someone demonstrate how a felon in possession of loaded C&B revolver is exemped from the relevant law?

The other thing that crosses my mind is that the stats show that roughly 2.5M people in a loosely-defined year avert a crime by being armed. That means the ability to command the situation, to hold the initiative, is a critical component of self-defense. If you pull Pirate Pete's M/L pistol and the bad guy you are negotiating with doesn't respect it, the situation may go downhill when it need not have done so.

That said, I believe the old rule about choosing calibers starting with 4 must include .44 RB in C&B revolvers, once past the other issues.

 

[J.D.]

A law that defines offenses like 'being armed in a school gun-free zone' will treat a C&B CCW as a firearm in the ordinary meaning of that word.

Can someone demonstrate how a felon in possession of loaded C&B revolver is exemped from the relevant law?

No matter how BP arms are classified by law, a criminal offense associated with possession of a BP firearm will be treated as possession of a weapon, that includes felons in possession of BP firearms.

I might add that some states classify BP pistols as firearms.

The other thing that crosses my mind is that the stats show that roughly 2.5M people in a loosely-defined year avert a crime by being armed. That means the ability to command the situation, to hold the initiative, is a critical component of self-defense. If you pull Pirate Pete's M/L pistol and the bad guy you are negotiating with doesn't respect it, the situation may go downhill when it need not have done so.

You raise a good point about bad guys not respecting the potential of any BP firearm. Most people seem to feel that ML arms are nothing more than toys and not useful for any purpose, other than plinking. They just Don't seem to believe ML firearms have the power to take game or the POTENTIAL to give a bad guy a real bad day.

You are absolutely right about a firearm allowing a citizen to more easily command a self defense situation. However, presenting a BP arm to a criminal who does not perceive a BP firearm as a threat to him may only escalate the situation, rather than allowing the wielder to command that situation.

Escalation of an already bad situation only makes that bad situation infinitely more dangerous for all involved.

 

[nkbj]

Make sure the escalator goes in the right direction.