SquirrelsaurusR
45 Cal.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2004
- Messages
- 683
- Reaction score
- 1
...although not with the results I had hoped for.
I debated posting my experience here, since I didn't want to come across as flaming someone. But with others posting about their problems dealing with other gun builders, I decided to reveal the problem I experienced and let the reader decide for him or herself how to interpret it.
Ron Curley of Albion Small Arms is a gun builder in England. He makes many types of muskets, matchlocks, arquebus, handgonnes, etc. His home page says that he is not accepting new orders at this time. However, he told me that he was fine with new orders as long as you don't mind the wait for it. So in January of 2004, I sent him an order for a matchlock musket, the largest one he makes, with a .72 caliber 48" barrel, 9" lock, and large fish tail stock. He requires a deposit of 1/3 the total price with your order, the rest due upon completion of the gun. I sent him 2/3 the total price, or 250 pounds, which at the time equalled almost $500 (it also cost me another $57 to send my deposit registered and insured to England, since I was sending an American Express draft check in British pounds, which was non-refundable if lost or stolen). He told me the wait would be eight months.
After eight months, I heard nothing. I didn't want him to feel like I was being pushy, so I didn't contact him just yet. I figured delays sometimes happen, no big deal. At ten months, I asked him for an update. He told me it was delayed a bit because he had been busy traveling, doing faires and reenactments, etc. I knew he was a supplier to the English Civil War reenactors there in England, so this didn't come as a surprise. However, he said the three main components (lock, stock, and barrel) were completed, and all that was left was to fit them together, and it would be finished in another month.
Two months later, I heard nothing. It had now been twelve months since I sent him my order, so I asked him for another update. No explanation for the delay this time, just another reply saying "one more month". To make a long story short, I asked him for updates every two months and got the same "one more month" reply with no further explanations for the ongoing delays. I was never pushy or impatient in my emails to him, even though this was dragging on. I figured gun builders have problems I'm not familiar with, so I was always polite and patient. But to be honest, I was starting to suspect he was putting my order on the back burner while he continued to work on his more important jobs for the people he supplies in England. I can't say this for sure, but all I can do is speculate, since I was given no other explanations.
Eighteen months after I had sent him my order, I decided to give him one last chance and then ask for a refund if the reply wasn't acceptable. This was less than two weeks ago. This time he told me he had broken his ankle over a month earlier and wouldn't be able to do any shop work for a while. He said my musket was scheduled to be worked on in July (which didn't surprise me, since it only needed "one more month" three times over the last eight months), and now he wouldn't be able to work on it right away. This time he couldn't tell me how much longer it would take, but he assured me it was at the top of his list of priorities. It wasn't the first time I'd heard that. I also noted that although he said he had broken his ankle almost six weeks earlier, and now my already long-overdue musket was not going to be completed any time soon, he never bothered to contact me to inform me of this. I didn't find out until I contacted him (once again) for an update.
I finally decided it was time to call it quits. I sent him this reply last week:
Hi Ron,
I'm sorry to hear about your ankle. Unfortunately, I have to ask for cancellation of my order and a refund of my deposit of 250 pounds. When I sent you my order and deposit (Jan. 2004), you quoted me a completion date of eight months. It's now been eighteen. I've been extremely patient while waiting, but this has gone on long enough. The first time I asked you for an update was two months after the order was supposed to be done. Even though it was two months past due, you didn't bother to contact me and explain the situation. I had to contact you.
I've asked you for updates four times over the last eight months, and I got the same reply the first three times: "It will only take another month." That went on for seven months. With this latest update, now there's another delay, this time with no projected completion date. But giving me a projected completion date with the first three updates didn't make any difference anyway.
It took me several months and a lot of working overtime to save up enough money to send you that deposit, and now, after waiting a year and a half (more than twice as long as the time I was quoted), I still have nothing to show for it. I'm truly sorry to hear about your ankle, that must be a real problem. But that has no bearing on my order, since it was supposed to be done ten months ago anyway. All things considered, you've given me no reason to believe my order will be completed any time soon.
I know the order form states that you are not responsible for late completion of the order due to any cause beyond your control. However, the only reason you ever gave me for being late over a period of nine months (from the time the musket was supposed to be finished) and three updates is that you've been busy doing gun shows, faires, etc. That is a cause that is within your control. After accepting my deposit and quoting me a completion date of eight months, it wasn't necessary for you to keep putting my order on the back burner for a year and a half so you could do other things. I understand that your broken ankle is a problem that is not within your control, but like I said, that has no bearing on my order. That only compounds a previous, ongoing problem. I think I've been much more patient than most other people would be, but that has finally worn out. This has gone on long enough. I would like an immediate refund of my deposit, please.
I ended my email with the information he would need to do a money transfer, which he did. He was apologetic in his reply, but I thought it strange that he said he was sorry that I felt the need to cancel my order, like it was an unreasonable request or something. :: He didn't try to explain or refute anything I said in my email. The situation was just left at that.
So after a year and a half, I never got the musket I had been eagerly awaiting. I got a refund, although I lost almost $100 dollars in the process, because the exchange rate is a lot worse now than it was when I sent him my deposit. I realize that's not Ron's fault, just another bit of bad luck to heap on top of the rest.
Two things to his credit:
1. Although it sometimes took him a few days to get back to me, he always always replied when I emailed him. He was never 'impossible' to contact, as with some other gun builders I've heard about.
2. He immediately refunded my deposit without argument when I requested it.
I still have no satisfactory explanation why a job that was supposed to take eight months still didn't happen eighteen months later. And I ended up losing almost $100 of my deposit (and the $57 it cost to get it there). I did get a refund, but it was a bitter disappointment when I began realize the musket I had looked forward to for so long was probably never going to happen.
I was incredibly patient during the whole ordeal, and I've tried to be fair here, simply explaining what happened in my experience without being ugly about it. Anyone reading this is asked to take it as what it is, my experience, not a recommendation or warning, and to draw your own conclusions and make your own decisions in your business dealings.
I debated posting my experience here, since I didn't want to come across as flaming someone. But with others posting about their problems dealing with other gun builders, I decided to reveal the problem I experienced and let the reader decide for him or herself how to interpret it.
Ron Curley of Albion Small Arms is a gun builder in England. He makes many types of muskets, matchlocks, arquebus, handgonnes, etc. His home page says that he is not accepting new orders at this time. However, he told me that he was fine with new orders as long as you don't mind the wait for it. So in January of 2004, I sent him an order for a matchlock musket, the largest one he makes, with a .72 caliber 48" barrel, 9" lock, and large fish tail stock. He requires a deposit of 1/3 the total price with your order, the rest due upon completion of the gun. I sent him 2/3 the total price, or 250 pounds, which at the time equalled almost $500 (it also cost me another $57 to send my deposit registered and insured to England, since I was sending an American Express draft check in British pounds, which was non-refundable if lost or stolen). He told me the wait would be eight months.
After eight months, I heard nothing. I didn't want him to feel like I was being pushy, so I didn't contact him just yet. I figured delays sometimes happen, no big deal. At ten months, I asked him for an update. He told me it was delayed a bit because he had been busy traveling, doing faires and reenactments, etc. I knew he was a supplier to the English Civil War reenactors there in England, so this didn't come as a surprise. However, he said the three main components (lock, stock, and barrel) were completed, and all that was left was to fit them together, and it would be finished in another month.
Two months later, I heard nothing. It had now been twelve months since I sent him my order, so I asked him for another update. No explanation for the delay this time, just another reply saying "one more month". To make a long story short, I asked him for updates every two months and got the same "one more month" reply with no further explanations for the ongoing delays. I was never pushy or impatient in my emails to him, even though this was dragging on. I figured gun builders have problems I'm not familiar with, so I was always polite and patient. But to be honest, I was starting to suspect he was putting my order on the back burner while he continued to work on his more important jobs for the people he supplies in England. I can't say this for sure, but all I can do is speculate, since I was given no other explanations.
Eighteen months after I had sent him my order, I decided to give him one last chance and then ask for a refund if the reply wasn't acceptable. This was less than two weeks ago. This time he told me he had broken his ankle over a month earlier and wouldn't be able to do any shop work for a while. He said my musket was scheduled to be worked on in July (which didn't surprise me, since it only needed "one more month" three times over the last eight months), and now he wouldn't be able to work on it right away. This time he couldn't tell me how much longer it would take, but he assured me it was at the top of his list of priorities. It wasn't the first time I'd heard that. I also noted that although he said he had broken his ankle almost six weeks earlier, and now my already long-overdue musket was not going to be completed any time soon, he never bothered to contact me to inform me of this. I didn't find out until I contacted him (once again) for an update.
I finally decided it was time to call it quits. I sent him this reply last week:
Hi Ron,
I'm sorry to hear about your ankle. Unfortunately, I have to ask for cancellation of my order and a refund of my deposit of 250 pounds. When I sent you my order and deposit (Jan. 2004), you quoted me a completion date of eight months. It's now been eighteen. I've been extremely patient while waiting, but this has gone on long enough. The first time I asked you for an update was two months after the order was supposed to be done. Even though it was two months past due, you didn't bother to contact me and explain the situation. I had to contact you.
I've asked you for updates four times over the last eight months, and I got the same reply the first three times: "It will only take another month." That went on for seven months. With this latest update, now there's another delay, this time with no projected completion date. But giving me a projected completion date with the first three updates didn't make any difference anyway.
It took me several months and a lot of working overtime to save up enough money to send you that deposit, and now, after waiting a year and a half (more than twice as long as the time I was quoted), I still have nothing to show for it. I'm truly sorry to hear about your ankle, that must be a real problem. But that has no bearing on my order, since it was supposed to be done ten months ago anyway. All things considered, you've given me no reason to believe my order will be completed any time soon.
I know the order form states that you are not responsible for late completion of the order due to any cause beyond your control. However, the only reason you ever gave me for being late over a period of nine months (from the time the musket was supposed to be finished) and three updates is that you've been busy doing gun shows, faires, etc. That is a cause that is within your control. After accepting my deposit and quoting me a completion date of eight months, it wasn't necessary for you to keep putting my order on the back burner for a year and a half so you could do other things. I understand that your broken ankle is a problem that is not within your control, but like I said, that has no bearing on my order. That only compounds a previous, ongoing problem. I think I've been much more patient than most other people would be, but that has finally worn out. This has gone on long enough. I would like an immediate refund of my deposit, please.
I ended my email with the information he would need to do a money transfer, which he did. He was apologetic in his reply, but I thought it strange that he said he was sorry that I felt the need to cancel my order, like it was an unreasonable request or something. :: He didn't try to explain or refute anything I said in my email. The situation was just left at that.
So after a year and a half, I never got the musket I had been eagerly awaiting. I got a refund, although I lost almost $100 dollars in the process, because the exchange rate is a lot worse now than it was when I sent him my deposit. I realize that's not Ron's fault, just another bit of bad luck to heap on top of the rest.
Two things to his credit:
1. Although it sometimes took him a few days to get back to me, he always always replied when I emailed him. He was never 'impossible' to contact, as with some other gun builders I've heard about.
2. He immediately refunded my deposit without argument when I requested it.
I still have no satisfactory explanation why a job that was supposed to take eight months still didn't happen eighteen months later. And I ended up losing almost $100 of my deposit (and the $57 it cost to get it there). I did get a refund, but it was a bitter disappointment when I began realize the musket I had looked forward to for so long was probably never going to happen.
I was incredibly patient during the whole ordeal, and I've tried to be fair here, simply explaining what happened in my experience without being ugly about it. Anyone reading this is asked to take it as what it is, my experience, not a recommendation or warning, and to draw your own conclusions and make your own decisions in your business dealings.
