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Your most 'interesting' muzzleloader transaction ?

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Smokey Plainsman

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I very recently bought a Spiller and Burr that had been defarbed from this forum. Well the cylinder has so much endshake it slides back and forth like a rattle. So far the seller hasn’t contacted me back about it.

I feel your pain!
 

Smokey Plainsman

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Then what is the sense of even contributing a comment due to an unsatisfactory experience? Sit back in silence? Its not a rifle builder but a vendor.
It was just a heads up my friend. It sure as heck isn’t my policy. I do think that bad apples need to get called out, and believe me, there are more than a couple on this board.

The traditional muzzleloading community and builders are in general a stellar lot. But not all are so honorable.
 

zimmerstutzen

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About 1985, I had stopped in a gun shop in Silver Spring MD, just a few blocks outside the DC city line. An elderly gentleman took a pistol out of paper bag and told the clerk he was interested in selling it. It was a Waters and Johnson horse pistol. No ram rod and the stock was cracked. The idiot behind the counter looks at the gun and tells the old man, this is not something we deal in, but if you feel uneasy about having a gun in the house we will dispose of it properly. The old man shook his head no and said I got to have something. My great grandfather carried this when he came north on the underground railroad. I wouldn't sell it but I need some cash. So the man puts the gun back in the bag and starts for the door,. I was closer to the door and ran out side. I said excuse me sir. I am interested in the pistol, especially with the history you put to your great grandfather . But I don't have much money. So I tell you what. You name a price. If I have that much, I will give it to you for the pistol. If I don't have that much, , I won't try to negotiate, we part as friends. So the man though a while and said $80. I had $84.and about two dollars in change. So I gave him the $80 and got the pistol. Got back to the office and sat the gun down on my desk. The nosey boss comes in and looks in the bag. and sees the pistol. Where did you get this. I bought it on the street corner near the Tandoori restaurant. I thought he was gonna choke he laughed so hard. For weeks he kept saying where did you really get it. Well a month or so goes by and I come into the office from the post office. Boss comes to me and says you were telling the truth about that pistol. I asked what changed his mind. He said the elderly man was one of the firm's clients and had just been in about negotiation of a contract we were doing for him and while talking about strategies for negotiating, he related the story of how I negotiated for him to state a price on the pistol. . I located a ram rod and fixed the stock for it over the next few years. even shot it a few times. a lean time came along and I sold it. As I recall I got $650 for it.
 

Dale Lilly

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A few years ago I bought, online, a 1858 Remington, Chrome plated, gold cylinder, nicely engraved [probably rolled or ???] It is exactly like some that were marked XXX of a thousand. I called her and told her she was making a mistake. She said she did not care … just wanted it gone. She sold it to me for $125. Wasted money, however. It is so pretty my wife [Li'l Sparrow] won't let me shoot it. Polecat
 

Britsmoothy

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I finally found an early made pedersoli double. They are only about 6lb in weight and I always wanted one. It was in Yorkshire and I arranged to have sent to my local shop.
I gave the seller the address but did not know the postal code. No problem, a quick search on the web and I had the code.
The thing was there is the exact same named firearms dealer down in the south of England and in my haste chosen the wrong postal code 🤦‍♂️.
So for a few days there was two very puzzled people and eventually a not very impressed yorkshireman!

Just another episode of the mayhem I am capable of creating. I cant help it, moma said I was special 😊.
 

Greg Blackburn

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It was just a heads up my friend. It sure as heck isn’t my policy. I do think that bad apples need to get called out, and believe me, there are more than a couple on this board.

The traditional muzzleloading community and builders are in general a stellar lot. But not all are so honorable.
I think I found one. I was very clear a couple months ago that I wanted to buy .54 caliber Hornady BULLETS. My comments on a thread, in a message, and on the payment memo all stated "bullets." I received balls and the seller was clearly not interested in the problem. He and I even spoke on the phone a few times before the sale.

So yes, there are some shady and / or dementia victims on this board.

*He's an old guy, could be dementia. Saw my mother go that way, she got very delusional the last few years of her life.
 

jonathan butcher

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I remember that listing, considered it myself. How do you fix cylinder endshake ?

I very recently bought a Spiller and Burr that had been defarbed from this forum. Well the cylinder has so much endshake it slides back and forth like a rattle. So far the seller hasn’t contacted me back about it.

I feel your pain!
 

Smokey Plainsman

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I remember that listing, considered it myself. How do you fix cylinder endshake ?
The barrel can be set back, turned into the frame to reduce the gap but the flats are bottomed out against the frame. It is really not worth it on this gun unfortunately.
 
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Maybe he is getting older and starting to have memory issues. My mom and sister are going through that now and they get angry at times. My guess is they are more angry at themselves than anything.

Not all that strange but about 35 years back I was dealing with a pawn shop to buy a gun. The owner was hardly ever there and only dropped in on occasion. I made an offer on the gun and they said they had to wait until he came in to say yes or no. Took about a week before he came in and then they said the gun had to be held for 3 days before I could pick it up. I tried to explain, no, it didn't because in wasn't a fire arm like regular guns but I was tired of arguing and really wanted the gun so I filled out the paper work and waited.
I have those issues so bad some times I forget to put the powder before the patch and ball.
 

Half-Cocked

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A verbal contract is as good as the paper it is written on? Ever hear that?

My guess someone else walked in with cash just as interested.

I used to work at a salvage yard. People would call do you have an x for a y? If we did someone would pull it. Guess what it frequently gets sold to the first person who sees it. When the caller comes in one of two things happen. 1 we use the old "oh man I just sold it that wasn't you?!" Or we hand them the wrong part and take the money. They come back later and we might have one or we issue store credit. Completely unscrupulous.

As far as my experience. I had a vendor send me a ml with junk in the lands of the riffling that would not come out.

I asked him to send me another and the other one was the SAME. Boy was I ******. After the first time they should have made damn sure the second was perfect for my inconvenience. But no they send sub par cow dung my way again.

To add insult I paid shipping to return the first garbage rifle. Mean while I am asking on the forums and people started acting like oh it's no big deal just shoot it. This ****** me off too. I was even banned for being argumentative and bad mouthing a company.

Really? I mean really? Hey tell ya what if it's so nice why don't you buy it from me I thought. Vendor must be in cahoots with the forum. Probably a member.

So in the end because I spent hours over days slowly peeling away at the sht in the bore I ended up keeping the second rifle. I was going nuts second guessing myself. I had bought tons of guns nothing like this though.

Later I looked at Cabela's rifles in Saginaw and sure enough they look great inside the bore and yes mine WAS crappy. It wasn't in my head like the admin and his forum groupie posse claimed. Still don't know what thier special interest was.

I was very vocal about the company that did me wrong and that should not be wrong. When others told me it's fine I spoke up and said it's not!

To this day there is still crap that won't come clean from that bore. I learned not to second guess myself. I now know what it is like to talk to crazy people though!
 

Captjoel

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Several years ago, my wife and I were spending a nice summer weekend hitting a few local estate sales. I had IMMIC around 300 bucks to spend in my pocket. At one of the sales I found a pair of WWII German bayonets' complete with frogs that were tagged 40 dollars half price.

I'm not a collector of such but thought I could maybe make a few bucks doing a resale later on. I grabbed the bayonets and took them to the lady that was taking the money at the sale. She looked at the tags on them and said that will be 20 dollars! I was prepared to pay 40 apiece thinking they had been marked down to 40 but very happily took them with me for a mere 20!

On the way home from this sale we decided to stop at our towns civic center where a large antique fair was going on. I walked the fair and at the last tent there was this older guy who was very busy talking on his cell phone. I couldn't help but overhear he was in some kind of real estate transaction, as I was gazing into a display case he was using for a desk.

In the case my eye came upon a very ornate flintlock pistol. I got the guys attention using sign language as not to interfere with his phone call. He took the pistol out and handed it to me. Upon close inspection, I was completely stunned!! There were silver embellishments and cameos on every metal part. The stock was of a very fine curly type wood. Never saw anything like it before! Then, I noticed the tag hanging off the fancy trigger guard. 850 dollars. :(

As I stood there hanging on to the pistol I noticed the other items he had in the case. Lots of WWII German memorabilia and a few Nazi knives. I asked my wife if she would go out to the car and bring me those two bayonets I had just purchased. Without a word being spoken, I handed the vendor the pair of bayonets. Gave him a good minute to look them over and then I took the remaining 280 dollars from my wallet and placed it before him.

Without even breaking from his important phone call he just gave me a thumbs up and signaled a brush away with you and your new pistol!!
QualityBresicanPistol015.jpg
QualityBresicanPistol001.jpg
QualityBresicanPistol001.jpg
 

Eterry

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Having sold a few items in my day I've learned what my father said years ago. Don't waste your time on a "Be backer". Holding an item for someone to bring the money is usually a waste of time. If you're serious you should put some money down on it to hold it. If you don't carry cash, that's the breaks.

Years ago I shot competition ppc with a group of guys. A friend had a tricked out 45 acp revolver i was nuts about. He priced it to me and I said I'd buy it at the next match.

The next match he didn't bring it, said he decided to hang onto it. I was griping to a fellow shooter. He said next time give the guy $20 to hold it, otherwise you have no recourse.

Dealing with folks online is always dicey. But I have bought several guns on here and overall no complaints.
 

Half-Cocked

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Having sold a few items in my day I've learned what my father said years ago. Don't waste your time on a "Be backer". Holding an item for someone to bring the money is usually a waste of time. If you're serious you should put some money down on it to hold it. If you don't carry cash, that's the breaks.

Years ago I shot competition ppc with a group of guys. A friend had a tricked out 45 acp revolver i was nuts about. He priced it to me and I said I'd buy it at the next match.

The next match he didn't bring it, said he decided to hang onto it. I was griping to a fellow shooter. He said next time give the guy $20 to hold it, otherwise you have no recourse.

Dealing with folks online is always dicey. But I have bought several guns on here and overall no complaints.
I just got one of those I'll be back people too! After emails and texts asking questions then my bottom line price finally he says oh and Thursday is my day off I definitely want it if you still have it.

Guess what today is Friday and I still have it. Why negotiate if you don't have the cash or means to complete the sale.

You better believe I would of sold it if anyone else called for it.
 

Eterry

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Now my best ever deal on a muzzle loader goes as follows.
My best friend's sister has a garage sale after she divorced her cheating husband.
I drop by in the afternoon and things are picked over. I see a tool box, i glance in its full of gun cleaning supplies. She says give me $10.
I get it home and wrapped up in a cleaning rag is a 1851 colt Navy 36 repro, clean as a pin.
I later sold it for 12.5X's what i paid for it.
If only my portfolio would do that!!
 

Treestalker

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I had a strange experience that still gives me nightmares. This was in the early 80’s and I was at that time a driver for an overnight freight company, when my dispatcher called me on the radio and said to call him on a phone. This was before cell phones, so I found a pay phone and called. He told me my house had burned down but my wife and kids were ok. The dispatcher generously sent another driver to take my place so I could leave for the house. I lived in a very small town and we had just moved in with unpacked boxes in most of the rooms. When I arrived the volunteer fireman were just finishing up. I knew one of them, a young fireman from a church we were attending. He came up to me and said they had salvaged my guns, about ten long guns mostly centerfire shotguns, and my wife had them in her car. I was grateful to him but especially grateful that my wife and kids were ok. No one was at home when the fire started. We lived in a motel for three weeks, then rented a place in the country until the insurance settled with us. About a month after moving into the rented place on a Saturday evening I got a phone call. The caller knew my name and he introduced himself to me. He then asked me if I wanted to sell any guns. I didn’t know the caller. I asked him why he thought I had guns. He mentioned the name of the fireman I knew who told him I had a lot of guns and might want to sell a few. I was shocked and very apprehensive. I told this stranger the firearms belonged to my brother and I had returned them to him the day after the fire. The caller said thanks and never called again. The fireman that told him was about twenty y.o. The next Sunday at church, I told his dad what had occurred and I was rather upset about it. I told his dad because this kid was on the lower end of the I.Q. scale and I knew his dad would handle it. Fortunately nothing occurred after that but not knowing how many people this kid had told still gives me the shivers.
The really scary part is not knowing how many people you love, trust and communicate with every day are spreading information about you that you have know way of knowing about. 'loose lips sink ships'. When I was in the Navy in Fla., my office was next to the disbursing clerk, a really friendly Philipino American man who no one could understand because of his accent. I got used to him and would sometimes run errands for him. One day he needed me to take correspondence up to the second floor of headquarters to Education Dept. This consisted of a Lieutenant, a Chief P.O. and about a dozen or so civilian ladies (typists). As I entered, I passed the Lt's desk. She and the Chief were both away. I happened to glance in the Lt's trash can when I threw away a gum wrapper. There on top of the trash was an official looking document marked 'Classified'. Protocol was to guard the document until relieved. But I knew that would stir up Shinola to no end, so I delivered my dispatch to the Chiefs desk and got the hell out. Who knows what else the Lt. played fast and loose with? This is the first time I've told this story, it happened during the latter part of the Vietnam War, when I was kid, and I needed to tell it to somebody before I assume room temperature.
 

Treestalker

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Then what is the sense of even contributing a comment due to an unsatisfactory experience? Sit back in silence? Its not a rifle builder but a vendor.
The purpose of this thread is to share stories. Naming someone, even if you're sure you're right, may lead to litigation for libel or slander. If the person in question is indeed a jackass, their actions will eventually catch up with them. Many times we don't know the whole story, so we have to be careful. Just saying.
 

Rum River

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Back when I was still serving my 25 year sentence in IT within corporate America, one of the 'higher-ups' expressed his interest in 'really getting into' muzzle loading. Having asked for my assistance, I kept an eye out at various gun shows. After a couple months I had located both a shotgun and a rifle for which he immediately reimbursed me with cash. He had none of the related accessories (and had no idea what to get), so I told him I would procure them (and components) for him and he could reimburse me as he had for the guns themselves.

Everything went to blazes at that point.

He didn't want to pay, claimed it was too much money (even though emails showed him agreeing every step of the way), I was trying to rip him off (by buying additional accessories I already own?), etc. After battling for weeks/months one day I decided to google his name and the word 'arrest'.

Woah boy.

A history of felony arrests going back years. A reminder that being 'higher-up' in corporate doesn't necessarily mean they went through the same background checks as the rest of we loyal minions.

Cleared up the reason for his sudden interest in muzzle loading.

Never did get the money, sold off what stuff I could and ended up losing maybe $150. I'm far more cautious now and consider the $150 my tuition to the class: 'Try Not To Be Any More Stupid Than You Can Help'.
 

Treestalker

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I finally found an early made pedersoli double. They are only about 6lb in weight and I always wanted one. It was in Yorkshire and I arranged to have sent to my local shop.
I gave the seller the address but did not know the postal code. No problem, a quick search on the web and I had the code.
The thing was there is the exact same named firearms dealer down in the south of England and in my haste chosen the wrong postal code 🤦‍♂️
So for a few days there was two very puzzled people and eventually a not very impressed yorkshireman!

Just another episode of the mayhem I am capable of creating. I cant help it, moma said I was special 😊.
Brit, sometimes the planets are not in the proper alignment, LOL!
 

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