Well, I done fired it, now I have RB questions.

[Birdwatcher]

Took my slow-twist .54 Pedersoli Tryon to the range, first time I've busted a cap over BP in nearly twenty years.

I brung Goex ffg, Pyrodex fffg equivalent, 100 no.11 caps, 100 .535 round balls and TC prelubed 0.015 patches.

No serious sight-in work yet, just banging away offhand at 25 yards to see how it and me worked.

This was a used rifle, I snapped two caps downrange first, and then set off a load of 50 grains of ffg Goex BP under just a patch to make double sure there weren't already a load in it.

Started out with the Goex BP first at 90 grains under a patched RB then jumped up to 120 grains. Recoil weren't a problem with this 9lb rifle. Then I tried 90 grains of the fffg equivalent Pyrodex; sharper recoil, sharper bang, feels like higher velocity than the 90 grains ffg BP.

No misfires, only a single momentary hangfire ("snap-boom") when I first switched over to Pyrodex. I cleaned out the nipple, no further problem.

Cleaned the bore between each shot with a patch wet with "Ol Thunder BP Solvent", followed by a couple of dry patches. I was impressed with how clean the Goex burned, not nearly as much fouling as I expected.

Fired maybe 15 rounds with BP, 5 with Pyrodex. The rifle works, I remembered how to do it 'cept those caps sure got smaller and fuzzier than they was 20 years ago, same thing with rear sights ::

Here's my questions:

The .534 ball and 0.015 TC patch was tight enought I had to tap it in each time with the wooden handle of the ball starter, hard enough to deform the lead ball slightly. Once in, a determined shove with the ball starter then with the ramrod seated the ball.

1) Given I was swabbing the bore between each shot, was my patch/ball combo too tight?

I didn't think to check fired patches to check for tearing (well I did after I was done but could'nt find any). I also had 0.020 pre-lubed OX-Yoke patches on hand which wouldn't even begin to go in with that .535 ball.

2) Would I be better off going to a smaller ball size and a thicker patch?

Thanks,
Birdwatcher

 

[tx50cal]

I have never used a 54cal., but when I started out with my 50 I started with .495 ball with .018 patch. I needed a hammer for that load. I then went down to a .015 patch still pretty tight. Then I tried a .490 ball with the .015 patch ,PERFECT COMBINATION. It loads fairly easy , the shot patches have a black center from the powder burn and they have a very defined "rifling pattern". I use the ox yoke patches with hornady roundballs. This seems to be the best load for my rifle.If you think about it you have a .535 ball and you are stuffing .030" patching totaling.565".Pretty tight in a .54. You have to remember to double the thickness of your patch because it is on both sides of the ball. With the .530 ball you will end up with.560". I know that .005" isn't much but it might be what you need. If this is still too tight you might try .010 patches, but you will have to look for "burn through" on your patches. I hope this helps you out.

 

Birdwatcher,.... Sounds like everthin is go'n purty good for you. When you "bench" the rifle to work up the best load combo fer it, you might give the .530 roundballs a try, you may find thet they shoot jest as well as the .535's but are easy'er to load.

At my advanced age (and also the fact thet I'm blind), I enjoy "ease of load'n" even if it often comes at the expense of 1" bigger groups at 100 yards.

Still,... sub-3" groups at 100 yards with sumpthin I don't have to pound down the muzzle, satisfies this ol'timer. :haha: :results:

YMHS
rollingb

 

[Barney]

Mine likes .530 rb and .015 patch. Shot good for me years ago and never tried anything else.

Barney

 

[strongarm]

Sounds like to you just have ta go back and try again, but this time look at your patches before deciding to switch to anything else. How did your groups look and were you satified? You didn't mention what type of lube you were using, unless I missed it.

Micrometer pre lubed patches, they tend to be thinner that what they say they are. Too, some lubes make the ball start easier than others.

I went back to a smaller ball myself. I used to shoot .535 with a .012 patch and have gone back to a .530 ball with a .020 patch, but now I use a modifed form of Bore Butte in my .54 Lyman GPR. My modified source is to lube my own patch, allowing it to soak in for a couple of days and then I compress them between paper toweling to remove excessive lube. Put em in a baggy and then shoot them as needed. :thumbsup:

 

[HardBall]

1) Given I was swabbing the bore between each shot, was my patch/ball combo too tight?

I've *generally* found that if the ball-patch combo is so tight that It's very difficult to load- my accuracy suffers. I think the ball gets deformed while trying to short-start it and again while trying to ram it home, and this degrades accuracy.

I've read posts by Daryl where he talks of some very tight patch-ball combos giving better accuracy, so it may depend on the rifle or person doing the loading. At any rate, it would definitely be worth, at least trying the smaller, .530 ball.

 

[Birdwatcher]

Lube??? :huh: Oh, that must've been why the first one was so freakin' hard to load Well, the patches were prelubed anyway.

'Fact is, at the beginning when there was absolutely no way that patched ball was going in I was slapping myself for leaving the .530 balls at home (could'a been worse, I almost forgot the caps : before I hit upon the solution of hammering the .535 balls into the muzzle using the handle of the ball starter. Right before that I had fired a ball without a patch just to fire SOMETHING before I went home.

The other misadventure was right after that I made the mistake of running a dry 20 gauge patch down down the bore over the jag and it got stuck. Fortunately the previous owner had left the rifle with a decent fiberglass-pinned ramrod with a brass cleaning jag at one end and a concave brass tip at the other, each end being tapped to accept 10-32" treaded cleaning accessories. I was able to screw a cleaning jag onto the skinny end sticking out of the barrel to give me a better grip and I poured some Ol' Thunder solvent down the muzzle to soften the patch. Got it out after a couple of hefty tugs.

I was mostly just being a first-timer, wondering what the heck all these parts I had laying around were, and wondering where I had sat them down last when I needed 'em again. I have a tubular brass powder flask with a long, skinny pour spout, and a tubular brass powder measure with a long skinny pour spout, at one point I caught myself pouring powder directly from the flask down the barrel, now THAT would've been some recoil ::

A 25 yards, the rifle was grouping as well as I was holding, given the fact that I was switching loads and fumbling with new concepts like rear set triggers combined with hair triggers (%$#@*&!! why doesn't it go OFF! :. I will say it was printing about 4-6" high across the board but I ain't fiddled with the elevation yet, and I dunno what the ball should be doing at 25 if the last guy had zeroed it at 100 or something.

I would guess that the ball/patch combo was so tight that I must've been tearing patches on the rifling at the start. On the plus side, once it was started, the pressure required to push it down the barrel was fairly uniform (bore in good shape?) even if it was seriously flexing the ramrod. I suspect a .530 ball with a 0.015 or 0.018 patch might be the way to go.

Two points of concern about the rifle...

#1 The bore looked bright and shiny with a drop-in bore light, and loads pushed evenly down the bore, but when I was seating the loads there was a sudden give of resistance over the last small fraction of an inch. I dunno if this was the ball seating on the powder or if there is corrosion at the breach.

#2 Where the nipple screws in (snail?) there is an access screw on the side that comes out to give access to the flash channel. This screw is threaded pretty small (10-32 again?) and only goes in about two rotations. The threads on the snail still look good but the screw looks a tad worn. I made sure that I was all the way on the right of the firing line in case this screw came flying out under fire. No problems even with the heavy loads and no change in the feel of the screw going in tight (it ain't cross-threaded or loose), but I'd feel better with a new screw.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions folks.

Birdwatcher

 

[musketman]

I snapped two caps downrange first, and then set off a load of 50 grains of ffg Goex BP under just a patch to make double sure there weren't already a load in it.

The two snapped caps would have took care of that if'n there be a load left in it... :winking:

Another way to tell is to lay the gun's ramrod next to the barrel with the end of it at the bottom of the breech, mark the ramrod with tape where the top of the barrel is and drop the ramrod down the bore...

If the tape is roughly the same height as the muzzle, it's empty, if the tape is one to two inches above the muzzle, handle with extreme caution...

The .534 ball and 0.015 TC patch was tight enough I had to tap it in each time with the wooden handle of the ball starter, hard enough to deform the lead ball slightly. Once in, a determined shove with the ball starter then with the ramrod seated the ball.

Working with different patch thickness and ball sizes are part of the load developing fun, it is normal to have a good smack to start the ball/patch combo...

Loose fitting ball/patch combos will allow gas to blow by and performance will suffer...

Brass is harder than lead, so it will mark the front of the soft projectile a bit...

 

[Rat]

Be sure to put your loading into perspective with what you are going to use the rifle for.

If your goal is to just shoot the tightest group possible, then you might want to explore some real tight fitting ball and patch combos, wipe between shots and pound away.

If the rifle will be used for hunting, I'd gladly shoot a 3" instead of a 2" group (for example) at 100 yards for ease of loading in the field...I would not consider that a bad trade off, personally. I certainly would not pound a ball down a barrel to shave 1/2" off a group...unless it was a target rifle, or was going to be used strictly for target shooting.

Rat

 

[Birdwatcher]

Rat...
Heck, at this point pie-plate groups at 100 would be a first for me ::

Musketman...

If the tape is roughly the same height as the muzzle, it's empty, if the tape is one to two inches above the muzzle, handle with extreme caution...

Aye, there was the rub, dropping the ramrod down the bore left maybe 3/4 inch between the bottom of the rod and the outside seam of the breech plug (the rifle has a hooked breech). So I was unsure if'n that near-inch was just the threaded plug on the inside or something else. Before I put the rifle up maybe two years ago I oiled up the bore real good, hence had reason to believe if there WAS a charge, it would be oiled beyond ignition.

Sooo, I snapped them caps to check for live powder, and then dropped in loose powder under a wad to check for obstruction.

The heck of it is, I STILL aint for sure certain there aint something down there, SHOULD the ramrod bottom out 3/4" ahead of the outside breech plug seam?

Thanks,
Birdwatcher

 

Musketman...

The heck of it is, I STILL aint for sure certain there aint something down there, SHOULD the ramrod bottom out 3/4" ahead of the outside breech plug seam?

Thanks,
Birdwatcher

YEP!!.... :thumbsup:


YMHS
rollingb

 

[Rebel]

Put a cap on the nipple, point it in a safe direction at something light, like a dry leaf or blade of grass, and fire. It the barrel is clear the leaf or grass will move.

 

[CrackStock]

If the gun is for hunting, target load your tight fit at the camp or at the truck and then carry a looser load for field reload. ;-)

That gives you one good shot.

Works for me.

YMHS,
CrackStock

 

G'day,

The Pedersoli manual for your rifle suggests a .535 RB with a .010 patch. This is the same as recommended for the Kodiak rifle which I own.

Cheers from down under
Aussie Bob

 

[Slamfire]

They make bigger (musket) caps and fire sights for those of us who are youth challenged.

 

[Rat]

Right Crack-Shot, I load my Bess with a thicker patch when the barrel is clean, then the balls in my loading block are in a thinner patch. With the Jaeger I probably won't bother as I expect fine accuracy from it...with the smoothbore it helps to cheat a little. Also with the Jaeger the effort required to ram the ball seems to be the same whether the barrel is clean or fouled.

Watchingbird I used the 2 and 3" group size as an example...just between you and me I consider a 6" group at 100 fine for hunting, and really if you can hit the pie plate EVERY time at 100 yards I don't see anything wrong with that.

However it is good for riflemen to strive for fine accuracy, I just don't see the point of pounding a ball down a barrel to gain something like a half inch, or even an inch, for hunting. I will however experiment endlessly with patches, balls, lubes and powders to shrink group size any amount!

Rat