Unknown rifle

[Taffyman]

Just purchased a .45 cal percussion rifle at an auction, I have no information about the piece, I wanted to get into blackpowder shooting at my gunclub and this rifle seemed to be a good start. Please see attached photos, your information would be appreciated. The only markings I can see are FALCON ARMS, a M in a circle, and .45 CAL. There is a name and a date roughly engraved on the side, the date obviously predates the percussion age, all a mystery

 

[TFoley]

Whatever else it is, your rifle was made sometime after the late 1960's. The barrel, at least, is modern, hence the stamps on it of maker and calibre and serial number. If you take the barrel out of the stock, I wouldn't be too amazed to see Spanish proof marks on it.

Right now, we know nothing about you, or even what country you are in, although I suspect that you might not be in the USA. From your site name, you might just be Welsh or living in Wales, and hopefully in possession of a Section 1 FAC for a .45cal BP rifle. Here in UK this is, of course, a Section 1 firearm, being a replica rather than a genuine antique.

Welcome to the forum, though, whoever you are.

PS - you may have noticed that the very first heading on this site is the one where you say hello - we'd love to hear about you.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Are there any other markings on the barrel? What is the condition of the bore?

Have you removed the lock? Any markings inside the lock?

You have modern rear sights. The stamping for the caliber and serial number are modern (1960 or later). I agree with @TFoley although the barrel may be a US made barrel. The front sight dovetail is somewhat strange as the dovetail is in line with the bore so there's no provision for drifting for windage. Not a big deal as the rear sight can be drifted for windage. Also, the sight is backwards. The tall end of the sight should be towards the rear.

I do not see how the barrel is attached to the stock. It may be pinned to the stock. I don't see a wedge to remove or indication otherwise for a hooked breech.

If you have members of your gun club with experience in muzzleloaders, let them evaluate this rifle for you. It is possible that this will be an interesting shooter.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Yes indeed..., that is a rifle made from a kit, and is probably circa 1975.
The stock is likely two piece, with the joint being hidden under the brass band on the forestock.
The stock was poorly finished (imho) but likely you can strip it and with a little sanding work, really improve the look, especially if the bore is good.
There was a thread about these kits back in 2012 Falcon Kentucky Kit

LD

 

[Taffyman]

Whatever else it is, your rifle was made sometime after the late 1960's. The barrel, at least, is modern, hence the stamps on it of maker and calibre and serial number. If you take the barrel out of the stock, I wouldn't be too amazed to see Spanish proof marks on it.

Right now, we know nothing about you, or even what country you are in, although I suspect that you might not be in the USA. From your site name, you might just be Welsh or living in Wales, and hopefully in possession of a Section 1 FAC for a .45cal BP rifle. Here in UK this is, of course, a Section 1 firearm, being a replica rather than a genuine antique.

Welcome to the forum, though, whoever you are.

PS - you may have noticed that the very first heading on this site is the one where you say hello - we'd love to hear about you.

I apologise for not introducing myself, I am originally from Swansea, Wales, but have lived in Canada, near Toronto for the last 40 years. My main interest is British Lee Enfield rifles. I bought this percussion rifle on a whim at auction. I always wanted to shoot muzzleloaders, so this is my chance. maybe start a blackpowder section at my gunclub. Anyway thanks for the information, Spanish sounds about right, the rifle has what we call with Enfields a Punjab look to it, a little gawdy, blue ramrod etc.

 

[mooman76]

I think whoever finished this gun was trying to give it an aged appearance.

 

[TFoley]

I apologise for not introducing myself, I am originally from Swansea, Wales, but have lived in Canada, near Toronto for the last 40 years. My main interest is British Lee Enfield rifles. I bought this percussion rifle on a whim at auction. I always wanted to shoot muzzleloaders, so this is my chance. maybe start a blackpowder section at my gunclub. Anyway thanks for the information, Spanish sounds about right, the rifle has what we call with Enfields a Punjab look to it, a little gawdy, blue ramrod etc.

Thanks for that information. Sadly, your gun is a modern replica and subject to your firearms laws on modern firearms. I also write on canadiangunnutz site, and I earnestly recommend that you join over there as well.

THIS is an excerpt from the RCMP site -

Percussion cap long guns and muzzle-loading black powder handguns made after 1898 are not considered antiques even if they are copies of an earlier antique model. Newer Percussion cap long guns and muzzle-loading black powder handguns made after 1898 are not considered antiques even if they are copies of an earlier antique model. Newer percussion cap long guns are classified as non-restricted firearms. Newer handguns, including matchlock, wheel lock and flintlock handguns made after 1898 are classified as restricted if their barrel length is over 105 mm (about 4 inches), or prohibited if their barrel length is 105 mm or less.

There are a lot of reproduction firearms on the market. In addition, some firearms were made over a period of several years spanning the 1898 cut-off date. If you possess or are planning to acquire a percussion cap firearm or a muzzle-loading handgun, you need to know if it was made before or after 1898 in order to know what rules apply.

 

[SDSmlf]

You may want to research the Spanish manufacturer Mendi. From what I see in your photographs, your gun appears to use many nearly identical components that my Mendi blunderbuss uses, such patchbox, lock and hammer, breech plug, butt plate and even the stock wood is similar. Below is what I previously posted a few years ago on the Mendi.

‘I have the ‘budget’ version blunderbuss (picked it up in an estate lot purchase) made by Mendi. 13-1/2” barrel (including the bell), percussion, grade 2 pallet wood, ‘24 Cal’ whatever that means (close to 26 gauge at .56” bore), etc.

Ok, the gun is a blast to shoot. The kids, large and small seem to love it. I bring it out on the 4th or anytime there is crowd and need or want an obnoxious noise maker. Put balloons up a few feet in front of the kids, load 30/50 grains or so of whatever is ‘excess inventory’ powder under a cottonball, and enough ‘stuff’ comes out of the muzzle to pop balloons, make smoke and a big boom. The kids think they’re Captain Jack and line up to shoot it. Good chance to teach gun handling safety and introduce young (and old) to ‘traditional’ muzzleloading. Unfortunately, it is as close to it as many will ever get.

Before you try the above load, get clearance from the grounds crew. Brother in-law’s bride had a fit trying to keep up with cottonball fuzz and ballon fragments in her back yard.’

 

[Taffyman]

You may want to research the Spanish manufacturer Mendi. From what I see in your photographs, your gun appears to use many nearly identical components that my Mendi blunderbuss uses, such patchbox, lock and hammer, breech plug, butt plate and even the stock wood is similar. Below is what I previously posted a few years ago on the Mendi.

‘I have the ‘budget’ version blunderbuss (picked it up in an estate lot purchase) made by Mendi. 13-1/2” barrel (including the bell), percussion, grade 2 pallet wood, ‘24 Cal’ whatever that means (close to 26 gauge at .56” bore), etc.

Ok, the gun is a blast to shoot. The kids, large and small seem to love it. I bring it out on the 4th or anytime there is crowd and need or want an obnoxious noise maker. Put balloons up a few feet in front of the kids, load 30/50 grains or so of whatever is ‘excess inventory’ powder under a cottonball, and enough ‘stuff’ comes out of the muzzle to pop balloons, make smoke and a big boom. The kids think they’re Captain Jack and line up to shoot it. Good chance to teach gun handling safety and introduce young (and old) to ‘traditional’ muzzleloading. Unfortunately, it is as close to it as many will ever get.

Before you try the above load, get clearance from the grounds crew. Brother in-law’s bride had a fit trying to keep up with cottonball fuzz and ballon fragments in her back yard.’View attachment 40796
View attachment 40797

Thanks, looks just like, from the lock to the butt

 

[Taffyman]

Are there any other markings on the barrel? What is the condition of the bore?

Have you removed the lock? Any markings inside the lock?

You have modern rear sights. The stamping for the caliber and serial number are modern (1960 or later). I agree with @TFoley although the barrel may be a US made barrel. The front sight dovetail is somewhat strange as the dovetail is in line with the bore so there's no provision for drifting for windage. Not a big deal as the rear sight can be drifted for windage. Also, the sight is backwards. The tall end of the sight should be towards the rear.

I do not see how the barrel is attached to the stock. It may be pinned to the stock. I don't see a wedge to remove or indication otherwise for a hooked breech.

If you have members of your gun club with experience in muzzleloaders, let them evaluate this rifle for you. It is possible that this will be an interesting shooter.

Yes, the barrel is held to the stock with two cross pins, the stock is two part, the joint is hidden under the middle band, one pin for each part. I will gently remove the pins to get at the proof marks, I assume are on the underside of the barrel, thanks for the info, I have learned so much from yourself and other members.

 

[hanshi]

Welcome to the Muzzleloading Forum, Taffyman. You do have a decent rifle to get started with.

 

[toot]

it is so obvious that it is a SPANISH, made gun. your GARDEN VARIETY TYPE.

 

[mooman76]

It's different enough from the other Spanish made rifles to be kinda neat, Not the same cookie cutter type. I hope it shoots good for you.

 

[TFoley]

@Taffyman - Did you actually read post #7?

 

[Taffyman]

@Taffyman - Did you actually read post #7?

Yes, I did read it, thanks, I am covered with my PAL card. I just took the gun apart and it does say "MADE IN SPAIN"on the underside of the barrel. At least with it being a reproduction I can "restore" it to a nice finish, with the varnish removed the wood looks like a fine grained walnut, I wonder what type of Spanish wood it is.

 

[Zonie]

Yes, I did read it, thanks, I am covered with my PAL card. I just took the gun apart and it does say "MADE IN SPAIN"on the underside of the barrel. At least with it being a reproduction I can "restore" it to a nice finish, with the varnish removed the wood looks like a fine grained walnut, I wonder what type of Spanish wood it is.

It doesn't look like the typical Beech wood that most of the Spanish made muzzleloaders use. That Beech wood is notorious for resisting oil based stains and if a stain that says anything about "mineral spirits", paint thinner or paint solvent, do not use it. Also avoid "gel" type stains.

It might be walnut but I rather doubt it. The wood doesn't have the "open grain" texture that walnut has.

To be on the safe side, reguardless of the type of wood it is, look for stains that are either water based or alcohol based. They work nicely on all woods.
The Birchwood Casey stains available at most gun stores and many hardware stores are these types of stain.

 

[Taffyman]

It doesn't look like the typical Beech wood that most of the Spanish made muzzleloaders use. That Beech wood is notorious for resisting oil based stains and if a stain that says anything about "mineral spirits", paint thinner or paint solvent, do not use it. Also avoid "gel" type stains.

It might be walnut but I rather doubt it. The wood doesn't have the "open grain" texture that walnut has.

To be on the safe side, reguardless of the type of wood it is, look for stains that are either water based or alcohol based. They work nicely on all woods.
The Birchwood Casey stains available at most gun stores and many hardware stores are these types of stain.

Just removed some varnish to see whats there, could be beech, I'll take your advice and get some water based stain, was going to use Miniwax #2716 on it, but its oil based. Maybe I could go the Linseed oil route, but again that.s oil.

 

[SDSmlf]

Just removed some varnish to see whats there, could be beech, I'll take your advice and get some water based stain, was going to use Miniwax #2716 on it, but its oil based. Maybe I could go the Linseed oil route, but again that.s oil.

Taffy. As I mentioned in post 8, the wood on your gun looks very similar to the wood on my Mendi. Not sure it was beech, but it’s like a cousin of it. I called it grade 2 pallet wood. It did have some ‘unique’ grain pattern with dark and light areas. I didn’t care for how the alcohol based stains were working so on lark I tried Aquafortis Reagent and it surprised me. Used real Tung to finish and this what I got.

More ‘figure’ than I expected.

 

[Taffyman]

Thanks, it looks great

 

[Rudyard]

Feibings leather die ' British tan' works fine for me . Don't disparage beech its hard to work & heavy but that's its only fault be sides tending to be plain, but it can have very nice fleck to it .
Rudyard