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touch hole size retrospective

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varsity07840

45 Cal.
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I recently decided that my '08 season deer rifle will be a flinter that I haven't shot in quite some time. I noticed that the touch hole seemed rather large. ( I remember having to drill it out after installing a White Lightning liner). It's around 3/32 (7/64 won't fit in the hole). With the exception of my 1816 musket, that's the biggest I have on any of my flinters. Ignition is excellent in this humid New Jersey weather, but suddenly I'm thinking it's too big. Opinions would be appreciated.

Duane
 
If it ain't broke, don't fix it! If it has been working so far, there is no need to worry about it while hunting. If it really bothers you, you could always get a new replacement and start over. I have my GPR drilled to 5/64" and she goes off everytime. You should be just fine. :thumbsup:
 
I can't remember the exact size drill bit I used. But on my GPR I was having misfires until I opened it up a bit. I agree that if it's working leave it alone. Maybe others can correct me, but I would think that hole would have to get pretty big before you would see any appreciable drop in velocity?

Ben
 
Most touch holes come in at 1/16". But when shooters have mis fires, they begin by opening them up, one bit size at a time. 5/64" is usually considered " enough " to cure most ills. I have a rifle that is opened up to that size.

Now, if you consider the difference between my 5/64" and your 3/32" the difference is only 1/64th of an inch- not exactly a wide cavern!

If you gun shoots well with that touch hole, DON'T change it now ! Leave it alone, and go hunting.

Yes, there is a reduction in chamber pressure, and in velocity as you open the touch hole. But even using a chronograph to examine the changes, it isn't much. You can easily make up the difference with a few more grains of powder. So, don't worry about it. If the gun shoots reliably, and you can place the shots accurately on your maximum range for hunting game, you are set. Accuracy is always more important than both caliber, and velocity. :thumbsup:
 
With a 3/32 diameter touch hole it is 44 percent larger in area than the "maximum" 5/64 diameter hole many people limit their rifles to.
It is 225 percent larger than the 1/16 diameter touch hole many guns come with.

While those numbers seem to indicate that the touch hole is "wide open", it should be remembered that the area of a 3/32 diameter touch hole is only 3 1/2 percent of the area of a 50 caliber bore and it is only 3 percent of the area of a .54 caliber bore.

Now that I've pacified my desire to crank out numbers I have to say
I agree with the rest. If the gun is hitting the point of aim and it's recoil seems to indicate that it is shooting a hunting load go ahead and hunt with it.

Changing the touch hole now for a few feet per second gain and possibly loosing some of the reliability in the process isn't IMO a fair trade off.
Not only that, but if you change it now you may have to sight in your gun and work up a good load for it.

For now, leave it as it is.
 
I use a 5/64 hole on a .58 fusil, I know several others on this and other forums that like a bigger hole on the bigger bores also.I would not change it untill it became a problem, I would always trade a bit of velocity for a solid four shore ignition,there are probably as many who would change it as there is who would leave it be, you'll have to decide what works best for you, I would say that if there is any nagging doubt about this or any other issue it may be best to make the change as one needs 100% confidence in their gun when the deer stops broadside within their range limit.
 
A touchhole this size brings to mind one of the things I've read about in several different places.

That was the common use of a feather to plug the vent while the gun was being loaded.
I've always thought that a little 1/16 or even a 5/64 vent would need to have a mighty small feather but a vent that was around 3/32 could use some fairly common feathers. :hmm:

That said (guessed at?) with a touch hole or vent that large it might be a good idea to use a feather in the vent when loading just to keep the powder from being blown out when the ball is rammed.

Just a thought. :confused:
 
Thanks for the replies. I was inclined to leave it as is for now, but I guess I needed some reenforcement. I've been shooting flint for 25 years and can say that I have some knowledge of the subject. It's funny though, how you can second guess sometimes.

Duane
 
Duane said:
Thanks for the replies. I was inclined to leave it as is for now, but I guess I needed some reenforcement. I've been shooting flint for 25 years and can say that I have some knowledge of the subject. It's funny though, how you can second guess sometimes.

Duane
If it's shooting accurately I'd leave it as is. I've always found that as a touch hole erodes your accuracy goes to hell, that's why I change them out at 5/64"
 
If you have a touch hole that is so large it blows powder on ramming you may as well close the frizzen and have a self primer. :( Just Kidding; this is not considered a safe practice today! An accidental discharge would ruin your day and mangle your hand for sure.
 
I hear everyone talking about the different diameters of the touch hole, but what about the depth/length of the touch hole. Doesn't this factor come into play at all?
 
The depth of the touch hole can affect ignition in some guns.

The White Lightning Vent liner, with its parabolic cone on the inside, made by Jim Chambers made a big splash several years ago when he first offered it because he made believers out of a lot of old guys who didn't think there was anything new to be offered to help flintlock ignition. We were all sceptics about his liner, until we tried it, and then found ourselves standing around at rendezvous with other old guys and bringing up the subject, only to find that others in the group had also tried the new liners, and found they were faster, and were waiting to hear what others had experienced using them. Word of mouth, with lots of smiles, and good nature laughing at ourselves became the order of the day, and Jim's business selling those vent liners soared. Not since Hot Shot nipples were offered for percussion shooters has such a small item made such a remarkable difference for MLers.

To this day, guys who have tried the White Lightning Vent hole liners laugh everytime someone asks them if they REALLY MAKE THAT MUCH DIFFERENCE! Oh, you will find people even here who claim they don't notice a real difference. But, most of us do, and have.

Now, to the question of depth/width. If you understand what a parabolic curve does, it does not take much depth or width for this surface to perform its " magic". The wider the barrel, of course, the deeper the parabolic cone will be, and the more the liner will focus both gas pressure, and heat back into the powder charge, delaying the release of gas out the vent for just a few milliseconds, but long enough to raise the pressure, and the heat to provide more complete burning of the powder, and faster ignition of ALL the powder in the barrel.

A flintlock burns linearly, like lighting a cannon fuse. It has to burn its way into the powder. By Contrast, a Percussion cap Burns a hole through the middle of the powder charge, and ignites all the powder in the barrel much faster. We are still talking milliseconds, and you need special equipment to " hear " the difference, but its there.

FFFg powder will burn more completely and faster in a percussion gun, than in a flintlock, all things being equal. FFg powder, because the granules are larger and therefore allow more air to fit between the granules in the barrel, burns more completely in a flintlock, than in a percussion rifle. If you use an OP wad in both types of guns, FFg will leave as little or less residue in the flintlock as is left in the percussion gun, all things being equal.

Because of the vent hole, velocity for the two powder charges will be higher with the percussion gun, so to equal velocities, you must use more powder in a flintlock than in the percussion- about 10% more by volume.

There are other vent liners out there, some with straight sided cones, some that are coned on the outside, and not the inside. Each has its fans. For casual shooting, it probably will not matter much which you use. For serious target shooting, the guys who shoot competitively swear that the kind of liner used DOES make a difference.

I hope this helps.
 
There are numerous posts about the length of the touch-hole and how it can be modified with coning the inside, outside or both sides of the liner to allow the main powder charge to be a bit closer to the prime. I believe it can make a significant impact on ignition speed, consistency and reliability.
 
It doesn't blow powder into the pan. You can see the powder right up against the hole. Very quick ignition. I'm going to put it on my new chrony and see what I'm getting velocity wise(.54 cal/90 gr Goex 3F, .018 patch, .530 ball).

Duane
 
I have not seen any velocity readings with my Pro-Chrono that can be used to differentiate anything. I get more ERROR messages than readings.
I place the chronograph 15 yards from the muzzle also.
I was thinking (yes its not my strength), but it would be interesting to line up 3 or more chrono's of sorted makes and see what the results are through several. just to see if all have as much change per shot.
All my use of the chony, have left me confused and wishing I would have left it at home :surrender:
This is only with M/L's as I have had much luck and totally satisfied with results when using cartridge(smokeless)guns.
 
Whoa!! That's not what I needed to hear!! I just bought a new one to replace one I destroyed about 5 years ago ( I was testing a .69 cal rifle and the fiber cushion wad hit right in the middle of the read out). It worked pretty well before that!
With this touch hole thing I decided it would be a good time to try another one. I got another entry level F1 from Cabela's.

Duane
 
Tried the rifle on the chrony today. Low velocity and huge deviation with 90 gr of 3F Goex. The best velocity I got was 1540 FPS but the average was quite a bit lower. 90 gr of 2F Swiss was better, but still pretty low for powder that hot. Soooo, it's time for a new liner. After thinking more about it since my original post, I'm not surprized. The rifle didn't seem to recoil the way it should with a hunting load.

Duane
 
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