This'll throw ya!

I e-mail my e-buddy in South Africa 'bout every day. Rolly is a fine chap and devoted black powder shooter and has been published in Magnum magazine, the S.A equivalent of something like our Field & Stream.
So when Rolly says something you can bank on it being factual. (unlike most of the :bull: here. :haha
Anyway, try this one on for size.
I spoke with Rolly yesterday about paper ctgds. for the .62 smoothie and he wrote back that a guy from the local shooting club makes ctgs. from aluminum foil, shoves the ball and foil down bore and the foil is completely comsumed by the charge! :shocking:
Now whaddayamkeof that????
Anyone every try this?

 

The American Military tried aluminum foil for wrapping ctgs. in the 50's, but gave it up as non-usable. it could be the foil today is thinner than that used way back when.
: If it does work as Rolly says, no glue or tape would be needed. If not totally consumed, I wonder if some would adhere to the inside barrel. If consumed, perhaps it wouldn't work well as a patch.
: Using nitrated paper probably won't work any better than it did in the 1800's. It was common for a partial tube to be left in the Sharp's breech, to ignite the next charge as it was being inserted. I do believe this is a warning. We don't want glowing embers left in the barrel when loading the next one.
Daryl

 

[musketman]

I have had some really hot greese fires on my grill outside, and the foil stayed whole...

It turned black and looked rather nasty, but it wasn't consumed, I would think that this would also be the case inside a breech, sure there's pressure and fire out the wazoo, but I feel the foil will not totally be consumed...

 

Hmmmmm? I don't think I want to try the Metal Patch routine, but you can and let me know how it works. :haha:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the ignition temp. inside the barrel about 1400 odd degrees? That SHOULD vaporize aluminum foil, but what if it doesn't.
Then there is that nasty thingabout hot aluminum in the bore when the next charge goes downbore.
Naw, I don't like those kinds of surprises.

 

[musketman]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the ignition temp. inside the barrel about 1400 odd degrees? That SHOULD vaporize aluminum foil, but what if it doesn't.

I think we should conduct experiments with foil and Zonies guns, we can use a chain to pull the trigger from afar... :haha:

Work up a heavy enough charge to knock the inlays right off... :winking: :haha:

I have a hand held spectrometer in my science equiptment, if the foil is vaporised, their would be an aluminum fingerprint in the spectrum (emission lines) when the muzzle flash is recorded, compaired to a shot without the foil...

typical aluminum spectrum

 

I shoulda know you'd have one o' them gizmos just layin' around!
O.K. your on. Get Zonie to loan us a gun, a good one, and we'll giver 'er a whirl.
I would think though that if the foil didn't vaporize there would be plenty of aluminum chaff on the ground.

 

[musketman]

I would think though that if the foil didn't vaporize there would be plenty of aluminum chaff on the ground.

A plus for radar guided weapons supression... :winking: :haha:

 

[Stumpkiller]

It's a pain cleaning leading out of a bore. How do you go about cleaning aluminuming deposits from coalesced aluminum vapors? ::

And who wants to bite off the end of an aluminum cartridge to load it. You ever bite into aluminum foil? It's horrible.

I've seen artilerists use aluminum foil to hold their coffee-cup sized charges. Someone mentioned that it is preferred because it is moisture-proof and won't form embers like paper bundles would. (As Daryl mentioned).

 

While I've never had a problem with paper ctgs. in a muzzleloader other than a buddie's problems with nitrated paper in his Sharps rep., its pretty much impossible for any paper to remain inside when it is all ahead of the powder charge. If the paper or aluminum ctg. were rammed down without it being empty, it would be beside the charge in the barrel and therefore suseptable to remaining in the bore.
: I'm of the opinion upon further thought on this subject, that about all of the aluminum would discharge iwth the ball and fouling. The US Military findings of it being totally unacceptable strikes some apprehension on my part to try it. My source doesn't specify just what the problems were, only that it was unacceptable.
Daryl

 

[shooter575]

New member here,
I know of N-SSA smoothie shooters that patch the ball with foil.They roll ball in a 2" sq piece of foil,lube foil and shoot.Foil comes off ball in first 10 yard or so.No burning up of the range. This is with a 60-80 gr load of BP in a 42 musket. Getting 3-4" groups offhand at 50 yd.

Jim

 

That is interesting. Is the foil folded over the top of the ball or around the base?
Daryl

 

[musketman]

And this lead to the phrase, "Drat, foiled again..."

 

[Stumpkiller]

Musketman,

I think you need a bigger air hole in that mask.

Groan - "foiled again."

 

[shooter575]

Daryl, From what I gather they use a 2" or so square piece of foil.Place ball in center,pull it around ball.Then roll it around between palms.Then dip in melted lube.Let dry. Now I thought this was goofie.But this guy has shot some real good groups with it.Now I could see this working if you had enough windage.My balls fit tighter in bore than his.006.I beleve he was running .012 or so. This was with .69 muskets.
What brought this line of expermenting on is our rules do not allow paper or cloth patching to be fired downrange.Most guys just dip the ball in melted lube 2 or 3 times.

Jim

 

[blckhrn]

Maybe you can post how to load a gun with a chain.

Watch those aluminum vapors, Al is said to play a role in senility.

 

[blckhrn]

If it wasn't acceptable to the pentagon it was probably because they found something less suitable and more expensive.

 

Good one - saving money on ammunition is what caused Custer's defeat at the Little Big Horn and many hundreds of other soldier's lives. Copper cases were much less expensive than the civilian brass cases that NEVER jammed.
: His men would probably have been better served by 1863 Sharps with linen ctgs or converted '59, 50-70's . At least they wouldn't have been cut down while trying to get stuck cases out of their Springfields.
Daryl

 

[shooter575]

Here is a pic of the al foil patched RB. last one on right has been diped in melted lube. Red tubes are what skirmishers use for cartridges as we can not shoot paper downrange. My smoothie loads is a naked ball shoved down a bit and lube poured over ball.Sorta looks like a sabot.With this set up I can get off 3-3.5 rounds a minute.We shoot timed events.
Last ball on the right is one that has been rolled around with a file. Some guys swear by it.It does give somthing for the lube to hold on to. To each his own.

Jim

 

[musketman]

Last ball on the right is one that has been rolled around with a file. Some guys swear by it.It does give somthing for the lube to hold on to. To each his own.

I can get that same effect by heating the lead too much, frosting the round ball, this will also give the lube something to hold on to...

Nice picture, helps explain things better...

 

Not sure what the red tubes are made of??
: Using paper ctgs. in my rifle, I was timed for 1 min. at an average of 9 seconds per shot, 6 for 1 min. That was with a cap lock using a disk of leather for capping & a loose rod. The short barrel (30") makes a big difference in speed over the muskets, especially the 46" ones.
Daryl