The Patriot - lessons in loading

[weirdjack]

I was watching "The Patriot" again the other day. Okay so sue me, it's enjoyable if you take it for what it is!
Anyway, I noticed for the first time that someone needs to give the right Reverend Oliver lessons in loading his musket. Toward the end they are attacking Col. Tavington's camp in response to the church burning. Rev Oliver fires, then is seen reloading. Watch when he pulls his rammer out of the barrel. Yup...it is backwards!
BTW- You'd think ol' Jean Villeneuve would've spent a couple minutes teaching the militia how to reload quicker too!
Jack

 

[No Deer]

I have not watched the Patriot in a while, but I do recall the scene but never noticed he was using the wrong end. You got to remember that he was a Parson, not a real seasoned warrior. In the heat of the battle he probably got confused and used the wrong end of the rammer. He was pretty nervous. Probably he was lucky to just be able to get the rammer down the barrel let alone get the right end down :crackup: :imo:

 

[SCATTERSHOT]

Did you notice, too, that everytime Tavington loads his pistol, he throws away his ramrod? British supply sergeants must have stayed awake nights trying to supply him with new ones!

 

[weirdjack]

Did you notice, too, that everytime Tavington loads his pistol, he throws away his ramrod?

The Reverand throws his away also in that scene. I guess that there must have been tons of ramrods laying about with all the fighting going on, so they could just reach out and grab one off the ground as needed?
Ah well...it's a fun movie.
BTW- I'm trying to figure out when the movie got chopped up. I saw it at the theater when it came out. I remember distinctly one of the scenes that impressed me was when Ben Martin is riding up to Tavington's camp to rescue Gabriel. He fires his rifle toward the camera and you see the patch twist, unfurl, and flutter down. I was impressed that they went to the trouble to FX that detail into the movie. My wife recalls me getting all excited about it at the theater. And yet, that part of the scene is not included on the DVD version....bummer!
Jack

 

[Stumpkiller]

Did you notice, too, that everytime Tavington loads his pistol, he throws away his ramrod?

Yep. :haha:

Notice also, Mel's loading block is always missing just the one ball from the bottom. Of course, he casts just one new ball every evening so I guess that works out.

 

[Claude Mathis]

He fires his rifle toward the camera and you see the patch twist, unfurl, and flutter down. I was impressed that they went to the trouble to FX that detail into the movie.

Probably just the wadding from the blank load. I doubt that they tried to show a patch flying through the air on purpose.
I don't give them that much credit. ::

:imo:

 

[weirdjack]

Probably just the wadding from the blank load. I doubt that they tried to show a patch flying through the air on purpose. I don't give them that much credit. ::

No, it appeared to be an edited-in digital effect. What I saw was a patch spiraling toward the right of the camera as it unfurled.
A neat looking effect....definitely not a blank wad. This was too well-done to be coincidence, :imo:.
They actually did TRY to get stuff right on some of it. The roundball casting in the Rapine bag mold was a nice touch.
Same with LOTMohicans....While not perfect, they at least made a better attempt than some of the older flicks.
Jack

 

[Claude Mathis]

Probably just the wadding from the blank load. I doubt that they tried to show a patch flying through the air on purpose. I don't give them that much credit. ::

No, it appeared to be an edited-in digital effect. What I saw was a patch spiraling toward the right of the camera as it unfurled.
A neat looking effect....definitely not a blank wad. This was too well-done to be coincidence, :imo:.
They actually did TRY to get stuff right on some of it. The roundball casting in the Rapine bag mold was a nice touch.
Same with LOTMohicans....While not perfect, they at least made a better attempt than some of the older flicks.
Jack

Understood.

Well, now I have an excuse to watch it again. Thanks, I'll look for it in my version.

 

[Bear Rider]

Same with LOTMohicans....While not perfect, they at least made a better attempt than some of the older flicks.
Jack

I wouldn't know about that. I never got past the scene near the beginning where the indian watches the colonist aim the flintlock at him, waits for the flash in the pan, and then DUCKS. :shocking:

Stop tape, eject, toss in pile for next week's cowboy action club raffle (those folks will accept anything as true that looks even remotely western or frontier). :crackup:

 

[SimonKenton]

Which scene was this? It's a LONG flick to search through. I have a progressive scan player and a Wega with a component hookup so I may see it better.

-Ray

 

[john12865]

I just finished tossing a rod to my wife. I'm stil not sure that she liked it.

 

[DGeraths]

I wouldn't know about that. I never got past the scene near the beginning where the indian watches the colonist aim the flintlock at him, waits for the flash in the pan, and then DUCKS. :shocking:

Okay... I feel that I have to defend the film here.

Now the scene I assume you are referring to is when Natty and Magua are aiming at each other. Natty is the one who drops to one knee just as Magua fires, but, due to the smoke from the shot, Natty is unable to take his shot.

Now if you watch the film, you will see that he drops BEFORE Mogua fires. In fact, whole shot is edited well... Natty begins to drop, cut to Magua firing, cut back to Natty landing on his knee.

I would suggest that you watch the film again, I don't think you are giving it a fair shot. The scene you are referring to is actually very well shot, as is the whole film.

I once had a similar experience with a reenactor who trashed LotM once he saw that my persona was that of a woodsman. (His persona was western fur trapper). Then he went on and on about the accuracy and quality of "The Mountain Men" with Brian Keith and Chuck Heston....

Oh brother...

 

[pondoro]

I saw a movie recently (forget the name, B&W Robert Mitchum was in it, Indians and Settlers in Ohio). Anyway they used the ramrods as if they were scrubbing the bore, up and down. Looked like they were cleaning the guns during the fights!

 

[Zonie]

"... Anyway they used the ramrods as if they were scrubbing the bore, up and down. Looked like they were cleaning the guns during the fights! "

-------------------------------------

(voice from behind the camara) "HOLD IT!! CUT!!
ACTION!! I WANT ACTION!!
I WANT TO SEE THOSE RAMRODS MOVING!!! NOW, SHOOT THAT SCENE AGAIN." :shocking:

 

[Jumpshot]

Ben Martin is riding up to Tavington's camp to rescue Gabriel. He fires his rifle toward the camera

I also saw it in the theater and I don't recall that shot.
The fighting was over when he got there. who was he shooting at?

 

[tobias]

I agree with ya on this one, it is all but impossible to frame both actors as they are going about the art of trying to kill each other. The editors did a real fine job in attempting to illustrate Natty Bumpo's reflexes. They were not attempting to make him look super human but wise and quick to react. Magua's muderous attempt was thwarted by the fast thinking faster reacting Natty. Of course there is quite a bit of hollow wood in the movie but overall I think it was done very nicely and as accurate as hollow wood could make it for its day. The bp action throughout the film was good even though at first glance one would automatically think "yeah right, Natty could have made a thousand yard shot accurately from the fort walls". But it is almost impossilbe for the camera to give as accurate a reading as the human eye does. So what appeared to be very very long shots from the fort, in reality would only have been fairly close in. In this movie as well as the patriot we gotta realize that what the directors are trying to do is to get us to feel the confusion of battle and to realize that these characters were extrodinary men fighting for survival in extrodinary times. People like Natty Bumpo existed and the Benjamin Martins abounded during those perilous times and in all likelihood, during the heat of battle, someone would have used the wrong end of the ramrod and he might have even thrown it to the ground when he was finished ramming it home. But when hollow wood gets involved with a project they are making a movie to sell and action is what sells those types of movies and if a character can do something like toss his ramrod to the ground to create more action then thats what he is likely to do.

I am sure that if anyone has ever been in battle that he didn't take the time to put his empty magazines back in his pouch when he had just a split second ago emptied it in to the on rushing enemy.