Tennessee Rifle Decorations

[Amikee]

Greetings All

I'm in a search of information and pictures of Tennessee rifles and their decorations. By that I mean patchboxes, inlays, carvings (if there were any), etc, whatever they could put on the rifle around that late 1700s-early 1800s. I know TN rifles were not as bling bling looking as the golden age rifles, but they're very finctional and still pretty. I have a super premium grade curly maple and it is a jewel already but I figured I'll do some research first in case I want to do something extra. I know there are banana and bean patchboxes. Also TOW offers large patchbox made out of few pieces which are shaped to the butt. Any info on this? But someone here mentioned wooden box as well. Shapes of inlays and materials. Pictures will be strongly appreciated. For those small projects I might need a someone with the skill I think. Anyone from CT that knows how to do this? Any links with instructions on how to do those patchboxes?

I will post my short story along with my rifle shortly. We don't have good weather here in CT.

Thank you again,

Michael

 

[Amikee]

Also, could there be any engraving on any of the metal parts? If so, what would be on it?

 

[Stophel]

Most of what are known as "Tennessee" or "Southern Mountain" rifles that exist today are way later than the late 1700's-early1800's. Generally being in the 1830's, 40's, .....and on through the 1870's and later!

There is one gun known as the "Joseph Bogle" rifle, which seems to me to be around 1800-1810 (apparently, the maker died in 1811). It is devoid of carving, except for a moulding line on the butt and on the fore end. http://www.americanhistoricservices.com/html/jos_bogle.html

The other is the "Whale Gun", which is signed inside the lock and under the barrel "BHC", which collectors claim is for Berryman H Compton of Tennessee, but it seems he was born in 1819, and this gun actually looks earlier than that (1790's? 1800's?), and the known Berryman would probably not be making rifles until the 1840's. So, it's still not provable just who, where, or when this gun was made, but it is dang neat.
http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2012/06/whale-gun.html

 

[Stophel]

The guns are not generally engraved, except for maker's names, or owner's names. Not a whole lot of decorative engraving, but I'm sure it's seen sometimes (it's not my field of study, but I've been getting a little more into them of late). They often will have silver (or brass?) name plates in the barrels.

As for wood boxes, I have seen one or two "mountain rifles" with sliding wood box lids (probably N.C.). Other North Carolina guns will have a wood box lid, but they swivel! It's a darn neat idea that I like!

 

[longrifle78]

Get ahold of the contempory longrifle association and see if you can get a copy of the january 2012 american tradition, it has several original iron mounted mountain rifles in it.

 

[mikemeteor]

Might not be relevant to your stated time period, but getting in touch with Ken Guy will lead to some good info on TN rifles.
TN Hog Rifles

 

[Amikee]

Thank you for all the responses that we got so far. The reason why I've chosen late 1700- early 1800s is because I have found that information on this forum just a couple of hours earlier. It was said that this is the about time when most were made. It looked like conversations opted for 1750+ as a starting point. I keep reading and readin on this forum and keep finding more and more things every time.
As to those two rifles mentioned, they look nothing like I've seen so far. I guess I haven't seen a lot then. Very interesting designs and lines. "Gotta" look into it.
Much appreciated

 

[Packdog]

Chris is right on the money. Inlays are not uncommon for TN rifles although few and far between. Engraving is pretty rare other than the makers name on the barrel and maybe on the lock. My guess is the locks were purchased already engraved. The most common inlays I have seen are simple geometric shapes. Diamonds and stars. The most common patchbox is a banana style for sure.
Cheers,
Ken

 

[Stophel]

There is a tremendous desire, overwhelming in some people, to take the iron-mounted Southern Mountain Rifle (and also the Pennsylvania "barn gun")and "earlify" it to pre-1800.... or even pre-1770. You simply cannot do that with honesty.

There are a FEW existing iron mounted rifles that appear to be pre 1800. The ones I have seen photos of seem to me to be of the 1770's-1780's time period at the earliest. Of course, some gun gurus date them earlier... These may be the ancestors of the familiar mountain rifles of the 19th century, but they are not quite the same thing. The Virginia "black rifles" are highly conjectural. :wink:

 

[Stophel]

This is the type of rifle that is typically thought of when "Tennessee Rifle" is mentioned. Note how "late" it is!
http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2012/04/rifle-by-charles-russell-bean-jr.html

This is a nice looking rifle: http://www.liveauctioneers.com/h/item/6650887?ah=525-bf80a

 

[Amikee]

Well, you said it yourself: 1770...
That looks like a pre 1800s to me
Is there something I'm missing here that you are trying to explain? Because I'm not looking to make a TN rifle like something that was used during F&I period.
Great informations that you provide here. Any more of those pictures, perchaps some close ups?

 

[Stophel]

What, exactly, are you trying to do then? I must be missing something now. I had thought the time period in question was late 18th/early 19th century, and my point was that what is familiarly known as a Tennessee Mountain Rifle does not fit with that time period (the first two guns I showed, do, however). :wink:

 

[necchi]

Any more of those pictures, perchaps some close ups?

Go back to that "BlogSpot" link,
Just click on any picture and you'll get your close ups and be able to scroll.
Then along the right side is a list of years and names that you can select and do the same to.

 

[Amikee]

Hello there

I'm trying to find out about time when those rifle were made. And I read that it was toward the end or past second half of 1700s. And from there just looking for information about the decor that was or could've been used during that time. I'm not familiar with those rifles at all and I'm very glad that someone like you posess that much informations to share. Greatly appreciate this.

 

[Amikee]

So from what years we should assume or what is proved those rifles were made? 1770s you're saying? Could this style be used during earlier times coming from Virginia? I'm curious now. You got me interested now. Then we'll move to discussion on clothing, but that's for another topic.
Thank you kindly

 

[tenngun]

Virgina rifles are afterall southren,and some had some rich decoration.Also used on later guns were silver inlys small and single as goodluck or hex marks for the same reson.Also indiviguals modified guns their selfs.For the most part southern rifles were plain janes.there work spent on stock shape,lightness and pleasing lines.Southren rifles are the" zen " of guns

 

[Stophel]

Now, when you say "these rifles", what exactly are you talking about?

The iron mounted "black rifles" seem to have come about in Virginia in the 1760's so far as I know, when they are referenced in period documents. There are a couple of iron mounted guns that I know of, one looks to me to be earlier than the other, one being 1770's, the other 1780's in my opinion (others, of course, date them both earlier). I don't have the photos handy to me at the moment, so I don't recall all the details of them, other than they are pretty straightforward in architecture, robust, plain, and iron mounted. The apparently earlier one has a cool "open bow" triggerguard. Guns like these seem to be the progenitors of the iron mounted southern mountain rifle family, and they evolved and changed through the years, and from maker to maker. :wink:

 

[Amikee]

Perfect informations. That's what I was looking for. You nailed it. As far as inlays go. So just stars and geometric figures were used? Would like a hunter star on cheek piece be ok? Or a moon or heart? I'd like to make it special in some way.
I was going to ask someome to do some carving but the buttstock is sort of skinny already and I don't think has enough meat to work with. Any examples of carvings?
Thank You

 

[jdkerstetter]

Michael,

Trying to clear things up here. Are you referring to the rifle you just bought? The one you posted pictures of?

If that's the case, that style of gun was built no earlier than the second quarter of the 19th century.

Embelishments? A little late for a patchbox as they should be installed prior to finishing. Installing one now without interupting the existing finish would be difficult, to say the least. Any other inlays would offer the same challenges as they should be flush when installed correctly.

You could apply a surface mounted plate, say an engraved oval on the cheek, screwed or nailed on and engraved.

What makes these simple Tennessee guns special is just that....simplicity. It's more about architecture than anything else. Stars, moons and various other inlays weren't common, even unheard of as supplied by the builder. Applied by the user as a form of folk art? Maybe.

Whatever the case, it's your gun, so do what you want with it. With care in application and excersizing good taste, it will not detract from the piece. No offence, but you are not going to make your gun any less historically or period correct as it is a generic copy of guns built in the Southern moutains for decades....of which there were/are many.

Whatever you do, just enjoy it. J.D.

 

[Amikee]

No offense taken. Thank you for reply.
I'm referring to the period correct rifles of this type. I was just thinking about something minor to add to mine so it looks more like mine. You get the idea. I like it the say it is anyway and never in my life used patchbox, but wanted to see the opinions on the subject. I would like to put some small inlay somewhere, maybe a bone or silver just to accent it a little. This is not exactly a poor boy with all those metal parts according to many here, so I guess it'll be ok for a small inlay to apprear somewhere. Anyway, you don't think this is a period correct rifle? Why not? I'm very curious since I'm just starting to explore this style. Any information you may have will be strongly appreciated. Mr S in previous posts gave me some really good feed about them. Glad you boys are here to share your knowledge. And this is not being a kiss ( * )
just pure appreciation :grin:
Michael