Southern Deer-The "Myth"

[dc7x64]

Just wanted to bring up a very interesting topic, and dont want to start WWIII! Back when I was serving in the U.S. Marine Corps, I was fortunate to meet many people from all over the country. Living in open style barracks, we had a Lakota Sioux, an a guy from Minnesota with an extremely Nordic last name sharing a bunk! That being said just to explain the diversity. When the subject of hunting came up, a typical response from guys from North of the Mason-Dixon Line would be, "Why do you guys even bother to hunt deer down here?" "They are the size of dogs!" Being stationed in Coastal Carolina, I would have to agree that the Coastal deer seemed to be rather smallish as compared to their Inland brethren. But to say that "All" Southern deer are small? I know that to be a member of The Big Bucks of Maine Club, you have to kill a buck weighing at least 200#. That tells me a good buck in Maine is 200# or better. Where I hunt in South Alabama, we have killed two mature 8-pointers in the last five years that weighed upwards of 250# with the average good buck going from 180-200# on the hoof! a little less per pound during the rut of course. I know there are 5 species of whitetail deer, with the Northern species typically being credited as the largest.(Seen a buck from Pennsylvania killed in the 1950's 400LBS) When is this Small Southern deer myth going to die? Heard this for years. Not worth hunting? May be smaller(Faster?), no less intelligent,and just as challenging to hunt. Maybe more so as their small size may make them harder to hit! Would anybody care to elaborate?

 

[mooman76]

I don't think anyone takes that completely serious. It's more of a my back yard is better than your's kind of thing. The size is more to do with the climate and what is available for the deer to feed on.I grew up in the north and moved out west and there has been the same thing. Arguing which deer are bigger, the white tails or the mule tails. They all eat good to me and you can't eat the racks.

 

[pab1]

I think by and large there is truth to the Bergmann Rule and Allan Rules. There are always individual exceptions but on average I think its proven. Our Shiras moose are much smaller than Canadian or Alaska/Yukon moose. That takes nothing away from them and they are all still incredible animals.

Besides, there are many benefits to packing out a smaller animal. In the same week this year I helped pack out a monster bull moose and a few days later a mid sized whitetail doe. The moose was a day long torture fest. The deer was a pleasure to pack out. After cleaning her I packed the doe out whole on my packframe. She did not even come close to the weight of a front leg of the moose. Something to think about!
:grin:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Don't know about "on the hoof", but I have seen Maine deer that hog dressed over 300lbs and here in NY a dressed out "big" deer hangs at 210 lbs or better. I have shot does that were that size at check stations.

Now that folks are feeding deer where legal (or not) I don't think the old colder = larger formula works like it did.

 

[pab1]

Now that folks are feeding deer where legal (or not) I don't think the old colder = larger formula works like it did.

Thats a good point.

 

[Bill Hall]

Sounds like Lejeune, I was at Cherry point. My first foray into the South, so I too thought all southern deer were like those "german shepherd" sized coastal deer, and those were the big ones. :grin: . It wasn't until our member Roundball posted some pics of some nice inland N.C. bucks he killed years ago that I came to understand there are some nice deer in the south. And when I hunted in Georgia last fall, we saw some "normal" sized does, and one really nice buck that made my ball fly crooked when I shot at him :idunno: .

Now, even though some of those eastern whitetails are fairly large, it would take two or three of them just to make a good breakfast for our big mean western monster mulies. Just saying :grin: . Bill

 

[rabjr]

Don't know about "on the hoof", but I have seen Maine deer that hog dressed over 300lbs and here in NY a dressed out "big" deer hangs at 210 lbs or better. I have shot does that were that size at check stations.

Now that folks are feeding deer where legal (or not) I don't think the old colder = larger formula works like it did.

Ya there is a difference and one needs to be talking about which. The Maine big buck club and any other I'm aware of like this means a "dressed weight" and not "on the hoof weight".

Don't know much about southern deer avg weights but I'm guessin if you do an average you may see a difference. You can't just say I saw a 250 lber once so that ends the debate right there...I've taken 2 deer hog dressed over 200 right here and one was 300 "on the hoof" and a lot that hog dressed over 150...is that proof we have bigger deer?? Not at all, just that some with good genes/food can get good sized, bigger than normal.

I'm reminded of a picture of a huge buck taken at the turn of the 20th century, a cousins wifes relative shot a 315 lb hog dressed buck outside of Springfield Vermont.

One must remember also our northern bigger deer were almost wiped out and smaller Virginia deer were transplanted up here long ago which ended up breeding with what was left of our northern herds. So deer size probably isn't all that much different today with many states...

 

[bobman]

I lived in Wisconsin my first 30 years and Georgia my second 30, my opinion is on average Wisconsin deer are larger than Georgia deer.

That said there are some huge bucks in both places.

We get to shoot 12 deer here in Ga and I am not real picky the smaller ones taste just fine.

 

[USMA65]

From 2007 until 2011 I lived in SD, on the prairie. I saw thousands of deer and spent quite a bit of time trying to compare them to their southern counterparts in TN. Overall, I think they were bigger, on average. They were, however, like women up north....uglier :blah: ff :stir: :wink:

 

[Jblk]

Hre in Illinois some of the farmers paint COW on the side in white paint so you don't get mixewd up. :haha:

 

If it is true then we get to hunt more to put the same amount of meat in the freezer. We probably also have longer seasons and higher bag limits. So... :blah:

 

[wattlebuster]

I cant say bout deer anywhere cept here in NW Ala so I wont do as your friends did :yakyak: an show how much they dont know. I can tell ya that I've killed at least 20 bucks over the yrs that weighed well over 200 lbs an a bunch more that would average in the 180s :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

I've also heard that expression about southern deer being the size of a German Shepard...it's just BS from people who don't have a clue what they're talking about of course.
Same mentality we all see pretty often where people repeat things they've heard as if it's gospel when they themselves have no personal hands-on experience with it.

 

[hanshi]

Whitetails are all one species with the difference that there are several subspecies. I lived and hunted in Georgia for 62 years. Way back in the 1950s Ga. deer were confined to the coastal plain and the mountains. When the game dept. started restocking deer in order to rebuild the heard, deer (for the most part) were imported from primarily Wisconsin and Texas. The Piedmont, where there were virtually NO deer soon exploded with them; hence the 12 deer limit.

The "small" coastal deer were similar in size to the Arizona whitetail (Coues deer). However, the average body and antler size of Ga deer went up sharply. At one time Ga. tied the record with Maine for the heaviest deer (400 plus pounds). The stocked deer from Texas, Kansas and a few other states allowed the descendants to grow antlers competitive with deer in most any of the states.

Jack O'connor, who cut his teeth on Coues deer, wrote that he always considered Mule deer to be huge compared with whitetails. This was until he started hunting whitetails in other states. Later he wrote that for the most part he found little difference in the average weights of the two species.

Just being in a colder climate doesn't account for all the increase in size; first place goes to diet. Look at those enormous corn-fed Missouri deer.

 

[pab1]

Just being in a colder climate doesn't account for all the increase in size; first place goes to diet. Look at those enormous corn-fed Missouri deer.

I don't think the Bergmann Rule applies when unnatural conditions like farming come into play.

 

[smokymountainmike]

I've hunted deer for 45 years in Alabama. I seen a huge buck that was killed near Comer in Barbour County Alabama back in 1970 that weighed 296 lbs on a set of cotton scales after the deer was field dressed. That is a big buck anywhere in the USA. I killed a buck back in the mid 80s that weighed 237 lbs field dressed. There are some big deer in Dixie. The problem is most deer are killed before they have a chance to mature. Dead deer don't get any bigger! Hunters need to give em 3 or 4 seasons to grow and put some weight on before they drop the hammer on em!

 

[hanshi]

I'll have to disagree about dead deer not getting any bigger. Just about every deer I ever killed gained at least 100 pounds before I even got them to my truck. :hmm:

 

[smokymountainmike]

Good point Hanshi they do get heavier draggin em back to the truck

 

[vern faulkner]

Not only that but I have a hunting friend that has had bucks that have actually grown more POINTS on their racks after they were shot. One went from a spike to a 4 pointer and another went from a 6 pointer to a 10 pointer. A few more years and they will be world record class. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Vern

 

[smokymountainmike]

Vern I've seen the same thing happen with a bass fishin buddy of mine. His fish tend to grow a lot after he caught em.