Son in law's poor ignition on Lyman Great Planes 50 cal percussion

[Larry (Omaha)]

My SIL's Lyman has served him well for 3 or 4 years. He is starting to have very poor ignition. He is annal about cleaning after any shooting. Caps are always going off, just the powder charge is not. ( uses real BP) He always swabs and pops 3 or 4 caps before loading. Yesterday we were at the range and had 3 or 4 ignitions after using about 4 caps each ignition including 4 F under the nipple it would go off. He has taken the barrel off and shot it with compressed air. With the clean out screw removed he can not get light to pass through. We are looking at pulling the breech plug. Is the Lyman breech plug one that can be removed without knowing any specifics?
Any help would be appreciated
Flintlocklar

 

[Phil Coffins]

Yes the breech is removable. When I remove them I reconture the inside and smooth it up to a fine finish. Then color case harden it which makes it less prone to fouling and easier to clean. You can do the same, I’m just a basement hobbyist.

 

[Buzzard II]

The Lyman has a patent breech and you probably are not cleaning good enough. You can soak the end of the barrel to loosen up the crud then use a .30 caliber or smaller brush to clean up the patent breech. You may need to grind down a breech face scrapper to get in to clean the patent breech. I think there is a brush that screws into a range rod that the bristles face the patent breech to clean it out. You may have to unscrew the drum before pulling it as I THINK it extends into the breech plug and into the barrel, not sure. Phil Collins is right. If you take the breech plug out at least POLISH THE PATENT BREECH. Good luck.
Bob

 

[Phil Coffins]

A couple of Lyman breeches I've done, note the difference contours on the out side but the important part is the inside. I break the sharp corners of the drilled holes and blend as needed. The breeches show one that was done years ago with lots of use the other is a freshly done job. Case hardening of the fresh one was done in a camp fire and a bucket of water.
2015-10-21 001 001 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr

 

[Frontier's]

#1 problem is its a lyman.

#2 the breech plug designs on these rifles are very poorly done and often, just a hole drilled into the side of the breech with no funneling to help shift the powder under the nipple. #1 is he using 2fg? Is so, have him try 3fg as thats what we have to use in my dads rifle otherwise no powder gets under the nipple and she hang fires or doesnt fire at all.

This is my dads cabelas hawken ( same maker for lyman brand ) Notice how its just a crappy hole and not even funneled or anything? Just a wall that the powder has to find its way into by some miracle.

 

[Okie Hog]

No need to remove the breech plug. Remove the screw and run a drill, nipple pick or stiff wire through the flame channel. Then clean the channel with a bristled pipe cleaner.

After loading the powder lean the rifle lock side down and give the stock a couple good whacks with the hand. This allows powder to enter the flame channel.

Popping caps after swabbing is completely unnecessary if swabbing is done right.

 

[Griz44Mag]

No need to remove the breech plug. Remove the screw and run a drill, nipple pick or stiff wire through the flame channel. Then clean the channel with a bristled pipe cleaner.

After loading the powder lean the rifle lock side down and give the stock a couple good whacks with the hand. This allows powder to enter the flame channel.

Popping caps after swabbing is completely unnecessary if swabbing is done right.

This!
Also when deep cleaning, dismount the barrel and soak the breech end of the barrel in MAP. The peroxide will eat all of the fouling out so it can be flushed.
When cleaning after a range session, With nipple removed, end of barrel in hot soapy water, use a rod with patch to pump water in and out of the nipple hole. You will get it clean. And do not use an overly wet patch to swab between shots with, you will get the negative results you are describing.

 

[Carbon 6]

He always swabs and pops 3 or 4 caps before loading.

First and foremost replace the nipple.
Both Swabbing and popping caps can cause fouling related ignition issues if done incorrectly.

Popping caps after swabbing is completely unnecessary if swabbing is done right.

100% correct.

 

[Carbon 6]

This!
Also when deep cleaning, dismount the barrel and soak the breech end of the barrel in MAP. The peroxide will eat all of the fouling out so it can be flushed.
When cleaning after a range session, With nipple removed, end of barrel in hot soapy water, use a rod with patch to pump water in and out of the nipple hole. You will get it clean. And do not use an overly wet patch to swab between shots with, you will get the negative results you are describing.

If you use MAP with real alcohol (not isopropyl ) to swab with the patches can be as wet as you like, you can even squirt some down the barrel and force it out the nipple, just follow up with a dry patch. The gun will go off every time. You can also increase the alcohol content slightly if needed.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Popping caps after swabbing is completely unnecessary if swabbing is done right.

I would agree for the barrel, but what about the breech and nipple area that is oil soaked? I always assumed those areas are the main reason to pop caps.
I never tried not popping caps, so I can't say from experience.
Thanks
Flintlocklar

 

[SDSmlf]

I would agree for the barrel, but what about the breech and nipple area that is oil soaked? I always assumed those areas are the main reason to pop caps.
I never tried not popping caps, so I can't say from experience.
Thanks
Flintlocklar

If the breech and nipple area are oil soaked you are doing something wrong.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Prior to contemplating any drastic remedy I would remove the barrel from the stock, remove the nipple and submerge the breach end in a pail of hot soapy water. Use the cleaning rod with patch up and down as a pump. This will flush out accumulated crud that may have built up over time. I've never had need to pop caps on a clean rifle.

 

[Carbon 6]

I would agree for the barrel, but what about the breech and nipple area that is oil soaked? I always assumed those areas are the main reason to pop caps.
I never tried not popping caps, so I can't say from experience.
Thanks
Flintlocklar

True, but a cap doesn't get hot enough for long enough to properly burn most oils. It just wets the walls with it and gives the powder something to cling to, creating more fouling.

Much better to flush it with MAP or similar first.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Prior to contemplating any drastic remedy I would remove the barrel from the stock, remove the nipple and submerge the breach end in a pail of hot soapy water. Use the cleaning rod with patch up and down as a pump. This will flush out accumulated crud that may have built up over time. I've never had need to pop caps on a clean rifle.

As I said in my post, this is the procedure he does every time he shoots. It worked fine for 3 years and now is giving him issues
Thanks
Flintlocklar

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

If the breech and nipple area are oil soaked you are doing something wrong.

OK, I am the dummy here then. For 40 plus years I have always soaked my barrel and breech area with oil to protect from rust and corrosion. How in the world can you not have oil in the breech and keep it protected? I do not have issues with oil, and use lots of it.
Thanks
Flintlocklar

 

[Griz44Mag]

I would agree for the barrel, but what about the breech and nipple area that is oil soaked? I always assumed those areas are the main reason to pop caps.
I never tried not popping caps, so I can't say from experience.
Thanks
Flintlocklar

How did they get oil soaked???
For 1 day after cleaning, stand the gun up on the muzzle and let it drain, anything you get out of it wasn't helping you anyway.
After cleaning, I give mine a quick shot of rem oil down the nipple and stand them up.
Before heading to the range, a quick blast of compressed air from a can - ready to roll...
No issues, no need to pop a cap either.

 

[Carbon 6]

As I said in my post, this is the procedure he does every time he shoots. It worked fine for 3 years and now is giving him issues

First and foremost replace the nipple.

When was the last time he replaced the nipple ?

 

[flntlokr]

OK, I am the dummy here then. For 40 plus years I have always soaked my barrel and breech area with oil to protect from rust and corrosion. How in the world can you not have oil in the breech and keep it protected? I do not have issues with oil, and use lots of it.
Thanks
Flintlocklar

I have never soaked a gun in oil in my 30 plus years . I Always swab the barrels, after thoroughly flushing them by pumping water and drying, with a dry patch after squirting a bit ofG96 in. Then i store them muzzle down in the cabinet. Any oil or whatever ends up on the floor of the box. Never have problems with rust or oily chambers.

 

[russellshaffer]

Get some aquarium tube from a pet store or Walmart. Cut off a foot and push it onto the nipple and blow through it. If you can't blow, something is plugged. Maybe the nipple or you really do have a big chunk of crud in the breech. You have to do this before loading of course. Someone on here suggested using a piece of 1/16 cable to run from the nipple hole into the breech to clear the passage. I have been using the tubing trick on a couple of patent breech rifles for some time now and there have been several times when it has saved me trouble. Most of the time the nipple just needs to be picked but it sure is easier and safer to deal with clogs when the gun is empty. Saves a lot of caps and cussing.

 

[Grenadier1758]

As I said in my post, this is the procedure he does every time he shoots. It worked fine for 3 years and now is giving him issues
Thanks
Flintlocklar

Yes, its taken three years for the fouling to build up enough to block the flash channel. Fouling is getting pushed into the breech by swabbing between shots using a tight fitting cleaning patch and jag the pushes fouling into the chambered breech. Use a slightly smaller jag and thinner cleaning patches. Pay heed to the other instructions about cleaning the chambered breech and cleaning from the nipple seat to the chamber. Also once you have cleaned and oiled the rifle for storage, place the rifle muzzle down so oil can drain out. The excess oil will turn to sludge and accelerate the build up of fouling in the breech.

If you start getting the failure to fire while at the range, run a damp cleaning patch down to the breech and fire a cap. The cap will blow the fouling into the patch so the fouling can be removed and deposited in the barrel to be pushed into the breech on the next swipe.

Now, off to the range!